Fantastic quote on jwfacts Sparlock article

by cedars 115 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  King Solomon

  No worries, as you've proven time-and-time again that your opinions are not based on facts or evidence, and you deny or disgard all facts.

  Hey, if the WTBTS can get away with it, why not you, too? Spewing dogma devoid of truth for others to consume is great work if you can get it!

  Giordano said:

  What the Starlock DVD did was show that there is no longer room for a parent to make their own decision concerning their child. Now there is an OFFICAL WT position to take. This was a tutorial on how to guilt trip a five year old(?) into obedience over a child's silly toy.

  While the video depicted a particular decision, that doesn't constitute a "policy shift".

  Now granted, it didn't exactly make the case for loosening the policy, or as endorsing the practice (!), but it didn't remove the decision from BEING a conscience matter. It doesn't say that JWs are NOT to play with magical toys, under ANY circumstances.

  Examine the dialogue of the video carefully, and you can identify the moment when Mom makes the decision as to how to handle the issue: it's right after she they're both sitting at the table for Caleb to eat lunch, and she asks Caleb a question (and this is from memory, so it's not exact words):

  Mom: "Does Sparlock use magic?"

  Caleb responds (without so much as hesitating to set his milk down): "Uh-huh (gulp-gulp)".

  That's when Mom confirmed that Caleb doesn't actually see Sparlock as a toy for the imagination, but that he seemingly believes Sparlock IS magical. That was Caleb's downfall (as 4 y.o. kids don't anticipate how a simple answer can have consequences on their toys: poor Caleb hasn't learned that yet, LOL!)

  Like I said above, rather than correcting his misbelief (which any non-JW parent might do), his Mom uses it as an opportunity to "reason" (placed in quotes for a good reason), and she decides to get Caleb throw the Sparlock out with the bathwater.

  However, you cannot claim her right to exercise control over him, as a conscience matter.

  Like the ASL video, the Sparlock video is a Rohrsach test, where people will see what elements they CHOOSE to see, and let logic and rational thinking be damned.

  My point is that the premise hasn't been supported with backing evidence, eg if you can find a recent publication that actually STATES that magical toys are now forbidden (not conscience matters), then the premise fails.
• 

  rip van winkle

  Let's remember the 'Sparlock' video was entitled: "Become Jehovah's friend- Listen, Obey and Be Blessed."

  It seems pretty obvious, the WTBTS is saying in order to have Jehovah's approval and mommy and daddy's, too, children should not play with 'magical' toys as it is 'bad' and displeases God. In other words- if you, Caleb, play with that toy or any similar type of toy, you will not become Jehovah's friend.
• 

  cedars

  Thanks KS, feel free to get it all out of your system if you must. Obviously you feel your two months on this forum make you well qualified to pass judgment on me. That's your call.

  Just don't expect a conversation. I only have those with people I believe are genuine.

  Cedars
• 

  OUTLAW

  Cedars, you'd do well to consider the calm, balanced and rational approach that is used by jwfact.org: they doesn't over-state the facts for the sake of dramatic effect, engage in straw-manning, hyperbole, etc. Just a plain presentation of the facts in an unbiased manner, letting the readers decide for themselves (I know! Facts are SOOOOO BORING...).....KS

  No worries, as you've proven time-and-time again that your opinions are not based on facts or evidence,

  and you deny or disgard all facts.

  Hey, if the WTBTS can get away with it, why not you, too?

  Spewing dogma devoid of truth for others to consume is great work if you can get it! ....KS

  So whats the deal?..

  In one post you say the WBT$ is calm,balanced and rational..

  In the next post you say,Cedars is spewing Dogma deviod of truth..

  If the WBT$ can get away with it why not him?..

  Your posting Bullshit..LOL!!..

  Are you just trying to piss Cedars off?..

  .......................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  King Solomon

  RVW said:

  Let's remember the 'Sparlock' video was entitled: "Become Jehovah's friend- Listen, Obey and Be Blessed."

  It seems pretty obvious, the WTBTS is saying in order to have Jehovah's approval and mommy and daddy's, too, children should not play with a 'magical' toys as it is 'bad' and displeases God. In other words- if you, Caleb, play with that toy or any similar type of toy, you will not become Jehovah'h friend.

  Good point, RVW. However, the point of the video on the 'obey' segment was the importance of obeying one's PARENTS, and if Mom "encourages" Caleb to throw away Sparlock, then disobeying her would also make YHWH uphappy. If mom didn't, fine...

  My point is that none of this constitutes grounds for claiming that the WTBTS has made an official policy shift on the issue of magic toys. You know as well as anyone that WTBTS doesn't exactly pussy-foot around, or shy away from making such statements when it comes to announcing such changes. Instead, they just do it, and let "we've got new light" excuse cover for any loss of face for making the change.
• 

  King Solomon

  Thanks KS, feel free to get it all out of your system if you must. Obviously you feel your two months on this forum make you well qualified to pass judgment on me. That's your call. Just don't expect a conversation. I only have those with people I believe are genuine.

  analysis of logic on display: appeal to seniority on JWN, followed by an ad hominem. Gotcha.

  Outlaw said:

  In one post you say the WBT$ is calm,balanced and rational..

  Nooo, I said jwfacts.com (which is the link provided in Cedars 1st post, the source of what is actually a commentary/opinion piece). That is not WTBTS (they're jw.org)

  Aim before you shoot, Outlaw, or you risking spewing BS.
• 

  OUTLAW

  KS..

  My mistake..

  Got it confused with JW Org.the WBT$ web site

  Paul runs JWfacts..

  Yes he`s everything you say..Can`t argue with that..

  ............................. ...OUTLAW
• 

  00DAD

  First, thanks to Paul for the jwfacts article and Cedars for posting that quote here.

  It's probably a mistake for me to comment on this, but I'm going to anyways.

  I have come to believe that one of the most insidious means of control by the WTBTS (and whoever is at the helm of this thing) is not from what is explicitly stated in a particular article on what JWs should believe or how they should act, but what is implied. This thinking and the resulting peer pressure is pervasive in JW culture.

  I can recall many instances similar to the Awake of 9/8/1994 quoted in the OP where something is described as a "conscience matter" but the implication (wink, wink) is that "spiritually mature Christians" will do this or that, or not do this or that as the case may be.

  For example, in the WT from last week there was a series of pictures contrasting two young JWs, one being a "good example" and the other a "modern day Absalom":

  

  Notice that the kid that is the "bad influence" doesn't have on a jacket. No rule about wearing jackets is stated explicitly anywhere in the article, but to anyone trying to be faithful to what they believe is God's direction through the "F&DS" the message is unmistakeable. If you don't wear a jacket at the KH you're a modern day Absalom and "like Satan, he let greedy ambition fill his heart". - w2012 7/15, p. 13, para. 5

  I believe this is a subtle, but nevertheless powerful tool in the toolbox of manipulation that the WTBTS uses. They use it very deliberately and very skillfully and they use it often. It creates both uncertainty and doubt which, just as a shepherd uses a staff to herd the sheep, tends to move the True Believers in the direction they want.

  I would hope that this point can be discussed, even disagreed with, in a calm, respectful and rational manner.

  00DAD
• 

  Londo111

  Similarly, there was an Awake about Science Fiction around this time period that likewise left the choice of books and movies up to a person's judgment if it contained "magic". I believe it was around 2001 that things started to get more hardline in that regard, especially after the first Harry Potter movie. Of course, the Awake has always been "outsider doctrine", not "insider doctrine", but I used the article on sci-fi as a license to read and watch fantasy. Ah…it's so good not to have to get permission from Brooklyn HQ anymore.

  BTW…do you remember this?

  w07 8/15 p. 32

  HAVE you ever read some of the Iliad or the Odyssey, two great epic poems of ancient Greece? Those are thought to have been composed during the ninth or the eighth century B.C.E. How do these works compare with the Bible, which began to be written many centuries earlier? The volume The Jewish Bible and the Christian Bible observes: “The Bible has no fewer than 429 references to writing and to written documents. This is significant if it is remembered that the Iliad provides only one reference to writing and there is none in the Odyssey.”

  Now…who cares about Sparlock or Harry Potter when reads the Iliad or the Odyssey! Here are tales full of magic and warriors and gods and half-gods (which the Society teaches are memories of pre-flood demons and their offspring). But nowhere in this blurb is any condemnation toward these works. Of course, this is "outsider doctrine".
• 

  King Solomon

  00DAD said:

  I can recall many instances similar to the Awake of 9/8/1994 quoted in the OP where something is described as a "conscience matter" but the implication (wink, wink) is that "spiritually mature Christians" will do this or that, or not do this or that as the case may be.

  For example, in the WT from last week there was a series of pictures contrasting two young JWs, one being a "good example" and the other a "modern day Absalom":

  Yup...

  Not only is he not wearing a jacket, but don't overlook how the Absalom character needs a haircut (it's touching his ears: that's a no-no in a military setting), and to top it off, is wearing a wrinkled shirt in the hall!

  He's also wearing long-sleeve thermals under a tee, which is also a "Worldly" look associated with stoners (Jeff Spicoli, from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, at least to anyone who remembers the 80's):

  

  Now it would be downright Pharasaical for WT to announce it's a 'sin' to wear wrinkled shirts, long-sleeve thermals, demand you get a haircut, etc., but sure, they can discourage it via social pressure from other teens and raised eyebrows from elders, etc. But that's hardly news to anyone here.

  But fact is, Sparlock DVD doesn't represent a hard-lining or change in official JW policy: it's just the same ol' schtick as before, and elders have all the tools and justification needed to use as 'sticks' without needing any actual written policy (esp since "braven conduct" covers a multitude of offenses).