They STILL might be DFing me soon for apostasy...

RayPublisher

BIG NEWS - I met with the elders last night. They were not arrogant and they were not mean spirited, but of course we all know they also would not budge from the JW brainwashed beliefs they are sworn to uphold. I let my light shine, and within two minutes of sitting down with them was no longer nervous.

I briefly told them about or touched on:

• Problems with 607

• The illogic of blood fractions

• The harsh shunning policies go beyond the things written

• Websites that exist to shine a light on all sides of these issues and that knowledge is power and the truth can stand up to any examination

• The WT being in the UN, the "scarlet colored wild beast"

• The many elders and ministerial servants that have stepped down due to conscience

• The elders in "stealth mode" that upload the Shepherd book, virtually all the letters written to the BOEs, etc.

• How will they personally feel after spiritually stoning me? Will it make any difference to God when they stand up at the mid-week meeting and read off of a slip of paper and announce that I was DFed to the congregation? Or would it be just what it is, a piece of paper that means nothing to Jehovah God?

• I mentioned Crisis of Conscienc and why is it that in a free country only JWs have banned books they are not allowed to read?

• I explained that there is a dissident movement made up of thousands of brothers and sisters that are trapped in the KH and cannot leave. I asked the chairman (lead elder) how he would feel if he never got to see his grandkids or children ever again and had his wife kick him out of the house when he said that he didn't understand why a person didn't just get out if they wanted to.

• I read them Romans 8:1 and 10:9 about being in Christ, and then 1 Tim 2:4,5 and I asked them if Jesus was their mediator

• I also took the opportunity to ask them if they thought the recent letter from the GB about what kinds of porn are okay and what kinds are not okay was strange to them and told them it seemed bizarre, and that it tells me that something is seriously wrong with the organization.

• I told them that I had gone to a non-denominational church a few times as an observer, and that I saw people showing the same love as I had seen at the KH

• There was even a moment where I got to mention our lovely Sister Grace G. and how she was DFed simply bc she didn't believe in 1914...I love you sis! (I even tried to say it in your accent but not very well though. Your testimony online was very special to me when I heard it a couple years ago- I wish we had lots and lots more of those)

• I mentioned their new GB member Sanderson, who is only 47 and nibbles and sips the bread and wine and asked them if they thought he was mentally imbalanced for doing so.

It went on for THREE HOURS...

.

Then they dismissed me...

.

And after about 20 minutes they called me back in and said they would have to think it over and get back to me...

.

And so I am not yet "shunned" which is incredible to me. I was speechless actually, and felt a little let down bc I don't know how they could *not* have DFed me. I'm not sure why they didn't kick me out quick, but honestly it is to their credit. These are not evil men and they were very loving, that is just my take on who they are. Yes, captive to the concept, but still fair men trying to be "good judges".

The recording of the event went better than I could have imagined...I even managed to get the first hour or so on hidden camera video before it ran out of space, nearly 4 gigabytes. The video is not great, it is often pointing at the edge of someone's head, but at far as I know it is the only judicial committee ever recorded to video.

This forum and some of the other amazing sites out there is proof of the fact that JWs have been lied to. Daniel 12:4 in the NWT says this in part:

"Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant."

It is becoming abundantly clear that there is something seriously wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses. More and more people are finding this out. That's true knowledge too.

More to come I suppose...idk how long until they call me back to render their verdict, which I still can't imagine WON'T be to DF me. Either way I am at peace and feel great!

Thanks to all for your loving interest and your prayers- it really gave me "power beyond what is normal", and means a lot.

sir82

It seems quite surprising that they did not DF you.

My best guess is that you said something which makes them want to call Bethel for guidance. Possibly your reference to the "top secret" BOE letters that you should never have even heard of much less read. Or possibly they think you have a "mole" on the local BOE who is supplying you with copies of the letters and they want to sniff him out before dropping the axe on you.

Found Sheep

Sounds like at least one of them Knows TTATT

breakfast of champions

Weird. They really don't ever "wait and think it over." You're either DFd or not. It does kind of sound like you have some "awakening" elders on your comittee.

Jim_TX

I agree with sir82 - they're contacting Bethel for advice on what to do.

It will amount to the same result - DF - but it may take a week to get 'permission' from Bethel.

That way, like pontius pilate, they can wash their hands of it, and the 'burden' will be on HQ's hands. (yeah right...)

00DAD

Ray, thanks for the update. It was courageous and brave of you to tell them all you did.

I agree, with all you told them, it IS strange they didn't DF you for apostasy.

I really appreciate you acknowledge that they are good men, but are captives to the concept. That in fact is what makes it strange that they said they'd have to think it over. According to the WT rules you are an apostate. A company man would've in a heartbeat.

Perhaps the only reason they did not is that they don't believe you're spreading your beliefs and disbeliefs among congregation members and perhaps they think they can "snatch you out of the fire."

In the end though, everything you said is true, " there is something seriously wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses " as a religion and any that follow their practices scrupulously, blindly and unquestioningly.

Keep us posted!

00DAD

Bobcat

My take is similar to above. They are probably biding time while they call Bethel or the CO for advice. It could be that alot of the things you brought up are new to those elders. But they won't be new to the CO or to the Service Desk.

I can appreciate what you said about the elders trying to be fair minded. Alot of them want to be. But at the end of the day they are company men first. Sacrificing a sheep so as not to rock the boat will not be a problem for them.

I'm curious. Did they know you were recording? If not, never let on that you are. As soon as they know, your out. Recording a JC is tantamount to proof that you don't accept their religious rulership.

Did they mention no recordings are allowed? Did they ask if you were recording? And if so, how did you respond? (I'm asking for possible future reference.)

How did they respond when you asked them if Jesus was their mediator?

Take Care

RayPublisher

@Breakfast - When I was an elder a couple times we said we needed more time (to check out some facts, etc) and had to bring them back in. But still very unusual.

@00DAD - Everyone will eventually get to judge it for themselves. I have a lot of editing to do as the sound quality is poor, etc. But once it's on YouTube then it will be out there.

Also I have footage of a "how to secretly record a judicial committee" that could become another video as well. I recorded it using only my cell phone video camera but they never knew or saw it.

@Bobcat - Good questions- The chairman said something along the lines of, "You understand that there is no recording allowed right?"

To which I responded and said, "Yes I understand that." and then they just went on with the meeting. I had a digital audio recorder in my coat pocket, and a hidden cell phone video recording it all at that point.

They didn't know how to answer the mediator question- I don't believe the younger elder even knew that Jesus isn't his mediator according to WT teaching. The one on the far left kept saying, "Jesus is my mediator under the direction of the faithful and discreet slave!" And I kept saying, can't you just say that Jesus is your mediator? Why can't you just leave men out of it? Or are the GB your mediators?

That was the subject of one of my very first YouTube videos, which is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV2WcRWfcIA

cedars

RayPublisher - I was delighted to hear that the whole thing wasn't as stressful as anticipated. It sounds like you probably gave them a lot to think about.

Here's a question though - if they DON'T disfellowhip you, will you still show the footage anyway?!

Cedars

ldrnomo

They may get the CO involved. Be prepared for another long meeting where they will prepare many quesions for you to answer. Make sure that you don't come off sounding like a ranting crazy person to them. This is hard to do because they pretty much think most people who are apostates are mentally diseased. Always stay calm relaxed and only state facts.

You did great on first meeting. You gave them many of things to think about and research maybe you've reached some of them with logic and reason.

Good Luck

They STILL might be DFing me soon for apostasy...

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