Question about confession and the two witness rule

by jwfacts 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    I need clarification on whether a person can confess, say to fornication with an unknown worldly person, and be disfellowshipped, despite the two witness rule not being fulfilled?

    How about if a person confesses to fornication, but the other person is a brother and denies it. Can either be disfellowshipped, since there is only one witness?

    The reason for my question is that someone has recently alerted me that the two-witness rule should not have to apply in the case of pedophilia, and cited the above as examples where the rule can be bent when convenient for the Watchtower society.

  • Splash
    Splash

    Yes, confession is enough to initiate a JC.

    How it goes from there is down to the local BOE.

    Shepherd the Flock 2010 says (p.38-39) "If an appointed brother confesses... Depending on the circumstances the situation may also need to be handled by a judicial committee"

    P. 74 gives more info on when a JC may be appropriate.

  • hotchocolate
    hotchocolate

    Well, I know a person recently who was DF'd after confessing sex with a non-witness, so I guess yes, technically the two witness rule doesn't apply there.

    But pedophilia relates more closely to the second instance - and if one party isn't coming to the party, I doubt the non-confessor would ever be disfellowshipped. And what's the percentage of pedophiles that are going to confess, let's face it? The rule was made 4000 years ago. IT'S A DUMB RULE. Certainly not a policy that is going to protect children today. That's why the authorities are the best people to handle things, not a bunch of clueless religious leaders.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I have been an elder in a JC where the JW confessed to sex with an unknown "worldly" person. Confessions alway override the two-witness rule.


    I don't really get the connection with pedophile cases. Even in a case of confession with another JW, if there are not two witnesses, the other JW can deny the act and have no judicial actions while the confessor gets reproved or even disfellowshipped.

    That would be the same type of case in a pedophile case if the adult denies the accusation. There are not two witnesses and the "confession" or accusation of the child would not be enough to proceed with judicial action.

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    If a sinner makes a confession against himself, this is seen as sufficient in most cases for the JC to go ahead and come to a conclusion. Usually it has the advantage for the confessor that there is no further investigation done, which can be beneficial for the 'sinner'. This was quite advantageous for Jonathan Kendrick for instance.

    However in the case you portray, the confession of one person does not overrule the 2 witnesses requirement in the JC of the other person. Of course it would be difficult to deny if the other ones confession is sincere and consistent.

    How this could help in child abuses cases I do not really understand.

  • cedars
    cedars

    jwfacts - This is from page 74 of the Shepherd the Flock of God book...

    confession

    Basically, the principle of confession is incorporated with the two witness rule in such a way that there needs to be two witnesses to any confession. Once a confession is received by two or more people, it constitutes "conclusive proof" of the wrongdoing without need for further "corroborating evidence".

    The scenario that you mention of two parties both engaged in the same act of fornication with one denying it, the other admitting it, would (I suppose) be handled in this way: the person who confesses would be dealt with judicially, and either reproved or disfellowshipped, whereas the person who denies it would need to be treated as "innocent" if he continued to deny the fornication and there were no other witnesses. It's crazy, but I can't see it being handled any other way. It's called "leaving the matter in Jehovah's hands".

    As a side point, look at the final paragraph in the above quote about a "plea bargain". It's basically setting a precedent for saying one thing in court, but another thing in private. A person can plead guilty as part of a plea bargain, but this needn't be considered a confession. Whatever happened to letting your "yes" mean "yes", and your "no" mean "no"?!

    Cedars

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    They do what the legal department says. They can DF you or not, as long as the GB/slave?legal department has not given specific direction. If no specific dorection has been given then it is up to the mentality/mercy of the BOE, and of course how repentant they think you are. I know of instances where very scandulous affairs came to light and were public knowledge, and people were not DF'd. Then I know of other innocent mistakes involving alcohol where people were severely reproved because Elders were present and were no doubt worried about the reputations. Also, a person can be honest about a matter and refuse to have their thinking re-adjusted, and be deemed unrepentant. I think they do whatever they can get away with. I think the two-witness rule is applied when they want, and discarded when they want. The rank-and-file don't know any better and view these men as apostles and stars in the hand of Christ.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Hi HotChocolate, nice to see you comment.

    OTWO - Even in a case of confession with another JW, if there are not two witnesses, the other JW can deny the act and have no judicial actions while the confessor gets reproved or even disfellowshipped.

    Does anyone know if that has happened, as it seems a bit twisted? How can they disfellowship the person that confesses, yet then admit they don't believe them and so not disfellowship the other party.

    The scenario doesn't help for child abuse, but is really to show the Pharasaical nature of the two witness rule, and that the Watchtower doesn't always abide by it, such as in the case of confession. Hence they could chose not to apply the two witness rule for child abuse, in order to use caution to protect children.

    I am not advocating that a person be disfellowshipped because of a single accusation from a child, but rather it should be taken seriously, the person should be monitored and reported to the police.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    Chapter 17

    UNDER PRESSURE

    Paedophiles in the Flock

    In recent years, Jehovah's Witnesses have struggled with an onslaught of adverse global publicity regarding paedophiles in their organization. It must be said that Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society actively condemn paedophilia and child abuse. Some of the accused are elders, but most are ordinary congregation members. Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only religion to be affected by the infiltration of paedophiles. Most of the victims are female rather than male, unlike reported offences in the Roman Catholic Church:

    The victims who have stepped forward are mostly girls and young women, and many accusations involve incest.

    The New York Times 11 August 2002

    Investigation into this has uncovered the reasons why certain paedophiles have chosen to infiltrate Jehovah's Witnesses, rather than alternative religious groups. One factor is, that reluctance to bring reproach on the organization bearing Jehovah's name, has caused the Watchtower Society to keep these matters in house and deal with them privately:

    Loyalty to Jehovah God will also keep us from doing anything that would bring reproach upon his name and Kingdom. For example, two Christians once got into such difficulty with each other that they improperly resorted to a worldly law court. Certainly, the course of loyalty to Jehovah God is to suffer personal loss rather than bring reproach upon Jehovah and his organization.

    The Watchtower 15 March 1996 - page 15

    For many years the Society has enforced a two witness rule to establish guilt. This scriptural rule meant that two witnesses must testify against a perpetrator regarding a specific incident, before action could be taken. With most incidents of child abuse there are rarely two witnesses. This has meant that even when several children made an accusation against the same brother, over different incidents, the elders were unable to act unless the accused confessed. Although elders were aware of child abusers in their congregation, they were not permitted to act or notify the police. The action that elders should take was explained in 1995:

    If the elders are approached by a member of the congregation who is experiencing flashbacks or repressed memories of child abuse, two of them are usually assigned to help. These elders should kindly encourage the afflicted one to focus for the time being on coping with the emotional distress. The names of any remembered abusers should be kept in strict confidence…

    What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation?

    Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15 , he should personally approach the accused about the matter. If the accuser is not emotionally able to do this face-to-face, it can be done by telephone or perhaps by writing a letter. In this way the one accused is given the opportunity to go on record before Jehovah with his answer to the accusation. He may even be able to present evidence that he could not have committed the abuse. Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and reconciliation may be achieved… What a blessing that would be! If there is a confession, the two elders can handle matters further in accordance with Scriptural principles. If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken

    Even if more than one person remembers abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such memories are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially. What if the one accused though denying the wrong doing is really guilty? Does he get away with it, as it were? Certainly not! The question of his guilt or Innocence can be safely left in Jehovah’s hands.

    The Watchtower 1 November 1995 - pages 28-9

    A change of policy

    Two years later the Society changed their policy to permit ‘the witness rule’ of accepting a single witness from two separate occasions. Photographic evidence had always been accepted:

    Thus, although they investigate every allegation, the elders are not authorized by the Scriptures to take congregational action unless there is a confession or there are two credible witnesses. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony can be deemed sufficient to take action. I Timothy 5:19, 24, 25

    Letter to Elders - 24 May 2002. To all congregations in the USA.

    More recently in 2010 the Society stated:

    Even though a Christian has been accused of wrongdoing serious enough to require judicial action, a judicial committee should not be formed unless the wrongdoing has been established. What kind of evidence is acceptable? ... There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just people repeating hearsay; no action can taken if there only one witness.

    Elders Manual, Shepherd the Flock of God 2010 - pages 71, 72

    Another contributing rule was ‘the three year rule’ which allowed for known paedophiles to serve as elders, provided they had not committed any known offences for at least three years. In 1997 this position was also changed. Paedophiles were no longer allowed to serve as elders, ministerial servants or pioneers. For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service.

    The Watchtower 1 January 1997 - page 29

    Taking a big step forward, the Society also confirmed that it was permissible to report an offence to the secular authorities after first consulting them. This had until then been discouraged to avoid bring reproach on the organization bearing Jehovah’s name:

    If, after contacting the Society, it is determined that the elders should report a matter such as child abuse to the authorities, it would not be considered to be a breach of confidentiality to make such a report. Elders should always contact the Society before providing any information on confidential matters to secular authorities.

    The Watchtower 1 January 1997

    The stance regarding encouraging victims of abuse to remain silent was also changed:

    Child abuse is a crime. Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. Elders will not criticize anyone who reports such an allegation to the authorities. If the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so

    Shepherd the Flock of God - pages 131,132

    The Watchtower Society is now being held accountable for the actions of its members, and has already paid millions of dollars in out of court settlements. Worldwide media coverage and legal cases brought by those who have had the courage to come forward, have contributed towards these changes in policy. The foremost organization that has campaigned, reported and influenced these policy changes is silentlambs.com. If this subject is of particular importance to you then I suggest you visit this site.

    There has been much criticism of the Watchtower Society's handling of this matter. This is an emotive subject which causes feelings to run high. The feelings of many understandable upset people have been publicly vented. It is appreciated that these changes have come too late to be of help to some victims. It is possible that the Society's reluctance to act more decisively has been partly caused by denial that such shocking things could happen inside their own organization. There has been genuine improvement in their policies regarding child abuse. They are now more transparent in the way cases are handled and keen to comply with the secular laws regarding paedophilia. Jehovah's Witnesses have always insisted on high moral standards in sexual matters and acted to maintain those standards. It is to their credit that they have accepted they have a problem, and acted to make their organization a less attractive environment for paedophiles.

    Take from the book Can Jehovah’s Witnesses SURVIVE? By Trevor Willis 2012. Amazon Download available.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    "A guilty plea entered in court by a Christian as part of a plea bargain, perhaps on the advice of an attorney so as to avoid the possibility of a harsher sentence, would generally not in itself be viewed as an admission of guilt in the congregation." (- p. 71 of the Shepherd book, cedars)

    Now THAT surprises me. If the person has taken a plea bargain, s/he has pleaded guilty to the offense. If a person is innocent, s/he shouldn't have admitted guilt for something s/he didn't do. A strange one, that.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit