I would think so too. I think the number of 3,000,000 is extremely high - and really makes the whole notion of the exodus completely unbelievable.
If the Israelites were slaves and being oppressed by the Egyptians where did they get all their camping gear & supplies to wander in the wilderness for 40 years ?
by smiddy 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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King Solomon
I would think so too. I think the number of 3,000,000 is extremely high - and really makes the whole notion of the exodus completely unbelievable.
Except you're forgetting the ultimate bail-out: "God DID IT!" :)
Without that, you're left with an Israelite tall tale, an ancient Paul Bunyan story.
Yeah, the scripture mentions 600k able-bodied men, not including their families, the elderly, their servants they may have acquired, PLUS those who chose to leave with them ("multitude" of aliens/foreigners, etc).
Most estimates I've seen range from 2-3 mil.
OR,as high as 6 mil!
this from http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/39_exodus.html
According to this passage 600,000 men descended from Yaacov left Egypt. If each man is married with the average of 5 children, this brings the entire population of Israel to 6,000,000. This is not including the mixed multitude that came out with them (Exodus 12:38) or the flocks and herds that they also brought out. This large number of people creates a few problems. The first is the size of this "army" (Exodus 12:41 - hosts meaning army. Also Exodus 12:37 where the men are called "gevoriym" or warriors) compared to the size of Pharaohs army of 600 chariots (Exodus 14:7) which brought fear to the Israelites. How could 600 chariots be considered a threat to 600,000 warriors of Israel? Equally puzzling is the fear the Israelites felt at entering the promised land where each city probably contained no more than 5,000 warriors compared to their 600,000.
Another problem is the simple logistics to supply, feed, water and move such a large number. According to the Quartermaster General in the army, it would take 1,500 tons of food, 4,000 tons of wood as fuel and 11,000,000 gallons of water each day to supply the basic needs of this group. Another problem is the location of the Latrine.
RSV Deuteronomy 23:12,13 "You shall have a place outside the camp and you shall go out to it; and you shall have a stick with your weapons; and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it, and turn back and cover up your excrement.
A camp of this size would be approximately five miles by five miles square assuming only 1,000 square feet per family. One located in the center of the camp would require a hike of 2.5 miles to use the restroom.
Another problem is the estimated population of the nation of Israel compared to the estimated population of Egypt at this time. It is estimated that the whole population of Egypt at the time of the exodus was between 2 and 5 million. According to the above estimates of the population of Israel, the people of Israel would be the population of Egypt. -
james_woods
If they had that many escaping - they would have had enough to stage a takeover and just rule Egypt.
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RubaDub
One located in the center of the camp would require a hike of 2.5 miles to use the restroom.
That's why manna was such a loving provision. It was a binder, like mashed potatoes. Imagine if God had provided jalepenos with salsa, hot wings, or other foods like that.
Imagine getting that "feeling" and having to walk over 2 miles. You would never make it. Might as well just go behind the tent and poop right there.
So you see how important manna was in their diets.
Rub a Dub
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J. Hofer
give them a break, they were bronze age slaves, they coud hardly count to 3. we are not talking about the greeks or egyptians here, we are talking about a few sheep herders that didn't even have their own sheep. given that they thought methusalem was almost 1000 years old, we can establish that they were off at about the factor of 10. so 600,000 men were actually 60,000 men. and 3 million were more like 300k - comparable to woodstock. and 40 years were actually 4 years.
the only problem i see is why pharao was so stupid to follow them with only 60 chariots so the israelites were able to beat them up really bad and drown them all. and another problem, what the heck did take them 4 years to cross that small area. mushrooms?
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Robdar
undercover:
3,000,000 people wandering around the wilderness for 40 years. You'd think there'd be some archaeological evidence of such a large nomadic gathering...right?
Normally I love your posts but I'm not following what you are saying. Jews were by no means the only nomadic tribe wandering around the wilderness/desert. Where's the evidence for the others? It's all probably buried under a quarter mile of sand.
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King Solomon
Robdar said:
Where's the evidence for the others? It's all probably buried under a quarter mile of sand.
The problem though, is far worse: not only is there no evidence in the desert, but there's a TON of archaeological evidence from that time period, except it's not where it SHOULD be:
From http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus
Mainstream historical consensus
Despite being regarded in Judaism as the primary factual historical narrative of the origin of the religion, culture and ethnicity, Exodus is now accepted by scholars as having been compiled in the 8th–7th centuries BCE from stories dating possibly as far back as the 13th century BCE, with further polishing in the 6th–5th centuries BCE, as a theological and political manifesto to unite the Israelites in the then-current battle for territory against Egypt. [2]
Archaeologists from the 19th century onward were actually surprised not to find any evidence whatsoever for the events of Exodus. By the 1970s, archaeologists had largely given up regarding the Bible as any use at all as a field guide.
The archaeological evidence of local Canaan, rather than Egyptian, origins of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel is "overwhelming," and leaves "no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness." [3] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult objects are of the Canaanite god El, the pottery is in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing Israelite villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones.
It is considered possible that those Canaanites who started regarding themselves as the Israelites were joined or led by a small group of Semites from Egypt, possibly carrying stories that made it into Exodus. As the tribe expanded, they may have begun to clash with neighbors, perhaps sparking the tales of conflict in Joshua and Judges.
William Dever, an archaeologist normally associated with the more conservative end of Syro-Palestinian archaeology, has labeled the question of the historicity of Exodus “dead.” Israeli archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog provides the current consensus view on the historicity of the Exodus: “The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction—made in the seventh century [BCE]—of a history that never happened.” [4]
Many other mainstream archaeologists (eg Finkelstein) agree that it never happened.... But if you want to tell these expert archaeologists to keep looking, then feel free! William Dever is a highly-respected archaeologist who came from a theological background.
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Robdar
King Solomon, you are absolutely correct. We've discussed the same at temple.
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mP
How exactly did the Egyptian army with just a few hundred chariots hope to stop 3million ? Surely thats an impossibility, i cant see how such a few chariots with archers can possibly intimidate that many people. At worst the 600k men could have suicide swarmed the horses, many would die but they would still "get" the army.
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Robdar
Actually, I don't believe the Exodus story although Passover celebration is a great time. The Exodus story has helped Jews survive for close to 6,000 years. It keeps us strong and helps us believe that we will survive no matter what is thrown at us. And we have survived. And our religion has led to 2 others that seem to be doing well also.