How do deaf people think?

by Iamallcool 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Lady Lee

  Fascinating article. And I agree with everything in it - almost.

  ASL primarily uses only hand gestures, whereas most types of sign languages, such as BSL, rely heavily on facial expressions and other physical expressions outside of hand and finger gestures.

  This makes no sense to me. If ASL is an only gestures language then I don't know one deaf person (and I know many) who uses ASL or the Canadian version of it. This gestures-only signing seems to describe what interpreters use in closed captioning - wooden faces and frozen bodies.

  The sign language I was taught and used when interpreting was a body-movement and facial-expression laden language. It was alive and I think it was one reason so many people enjoyed it when I signed. Ask Mouthy. She remembers watching me signing at the assemblies and conventions.

  They use an example of someone going for a walk and enjoying it.

  I would move my hands back and forth in front of me (just above waist height) and while I am using the hand gestured I might be moving my head around as if I am seeing what is around me. If I saw a bird my shoulders would still be moving as if I was walking but one hand would rise and using 2 fingers would zero in on something and then make the sign for bird but then might return to my walking motions and the hand signs for walking. If I enjoyed what I saw I would smile. But if I walked past something that smelled bad my face would not be a smiling one.It would change to an expression of disgust and make the sign for something that smells bad and still my body would be walking along.

  That whole paragraph could be signed in about 5 seconds. In those 5 seconds the deaf person I was "talking" to would get all those ideas.

  When I was learning sign language I often woke to find my arm hanging off the side of the bed as I signed in my sleep. I haven't done any real signing in 20 years but I often still think in sign where I actually see or feel the signs and I love to sing in sign language. Most people around me prefer that too over me using my voice.lol

  At MacKay School in Montreal for disabled children they had an early childhood program with parents bring in their toddlers. Both the parents and the children were taught to sign so help them develop a communication between the parent and child as early as possible. I also taught some of these parents who were eager to learn how to communicate with their deaf child. This was 30 years ago and while they were heavily focused on teaching sign language to babies and toddlers and throughout their educations they also saw the need to get any child who had any degree of hearing into hearing aids and into learning to speak vocally This was totally against the Oral School for the Deaf in Montreal where any kind of signing between students even in the school yard was punished. MacKay has been an advocate of using all forms of communication possible to encourage development of the child for as long as I can remember.

  I could never stand rigidly and interpret with no facial expression. That would be like putting my body in a cast and plastering my face. I don't talk to anybody like that.

  My only guess here is that this is written by a Brit due to the frequent references to BSL and he doesn't have a lot of access to deaf people. Maybe he is only referring to what he sees in those corner boxes where they show an interpreter.

  I did have to laugh at the comment about accents. Every family has their own accent. So while I learned fairly well to understand the accents of the deaf people I knew it was always hard for me to have to read what a deaf stranger was saying to me. I had to get used to their accent before communication ran a little faster - that and I realize how much I have forgotten.
• 

  Scully

  We recently had a visit from some relatives, one of whom is completely deaf since the age of 5 years. He can speak - he re-learned how to speak by observing lip movement and feeling air movement as his teachers spoke.

  My knowledge of sign language is very limited - mostly to finger spelling and some common words. He really appreciated the effort.
• 

  Lady Lee

  I don't think Helen Keller is a good example here. Keller had the added issue of blindness.

  I worked with the deaf. I lived with a blind man for 3 years.

  The issues they face are monumental.

  A deaf child might see an apple but have no name for it. But he can be taught that he can pick it up and eat it.

  The blind child doesn't see the apple unless he comes across it by accident or unless someone gives it to him.

  One cannot be compared to the other because each presents different issues. And combined the issues are not just doubled but magnified.

  Helen Keller's experience can only be compared to the experience of other deaf-blind children.

  I know plenty of deaf people who say if they had to choose they would rather be deaf than blind. And the blind say they would rather be blind than deaf. In each case they have learned to adapt to their disabilities. They are comfortable with it. They know next to nothing about the other world.

  Communication is such an intergral part of our development that children who do not have the advantage of learning some form of communication earlywill eventually be left behind. Blindness does nto inhibit learning to communicate. It inhibits the world that is is out of sight but not the communication. It is easier to teach about what is out of sight than what things are named.

  I remember heving a discussion with my blind friend about dinosaurs. He had no clue what they were like. Describing it to him wasn't working. So we went to a pet shop and I asked if he could hold one of the animals in the store. He suggested we come back when the store closed. He wouldn't take the animal out of the cage while the store was open in case it got away. So we went back after the store closed and he took this animal - not as big as an iguana but something similar and let him hold it. So Yvon got to hold it and feel its skin and back, the strength of its legs. Then I said - now imagine that is as big as your house. He got it.

  With a deaf person you could simply show them the picture. And give them a sign for it.

  It isn't so easy for the totally deaf-blind. Not that I am in any way and expert on the deaf blind. I haven't ever met one even. Bu they don't use the sign languale that any deaf person would use. Those are all visual sign languages - totally useless to a blind person. The form of language they ise is very different. I actually taught sign languiage to my blind friend who in turn taught to another blind friend. Since both were totally blind they learned to spell the words out by placing their hand on top of mine while I spelled out the words. Slow but it worked and a couple of times when a deaf person came into the office when my blind friend was there alone they were able to communicate. It was pretty impressive to hear how they had managed. Left alone they were forced to use a type of communication that Hellen Keller was taught.

  All that being said levels of deafness or blindness will certainly affect the degree of disability a person lives with. My blind friends andf my deaf friends do not see themselves as disabled. They have learned to adapt.

  I am losing my sight. I now use hearing aids. I also use a wheelchair. Seems all thise disabilities are ganging up on me. At least I know that disability does not have to mean dis-abled. I am just differently abled.
• 

  Lady Lee

  I'm sure he did Scully. Most really appreciate the effort others take to communicate with them. I know many deaf who are extremely relieved to see someone pull out a pen and paper and start to communicate that way.

  We treat them as disabled when we turn away and try not to have any contact.
• 

  Jeffro

  I remember heving a discussion with my blind friend about dinosaurs. He had no clue what they were like. Describing it to him wasn't working. So we went to a pet shop and I asked if he could hold one of the animals in the store.

  Dinosaurs? I want to go to your pet shop! :)
• 

  Lady Lee

  lol I could take you to see our Museum of Nature - real dinosaur bones that when put together span 3 massive rooms head to tail.

  No we had to do some creative imagery. He had something in his hand that he could feel from nose to tail. We explained about spiny crests and fins, horns and other add ons and then said - bigger than your house.. It has been a long time so he may have had a chance to hold more than one creature. The store owner was quite amused with our explanations and to watch Yvon feel these crittters as they squirmed in his hands.

  Trying to explain this in world to him was frustrating. At the time there weren't a lot of dinosaur toys on the market. That would have been so much easier. So we adapted and the shop owner was very helpful.

  Describing physical things to a blind person was easier than trying to describe sound to a deaf person. I recall at one point he wanted to lnow what the Star Stek Enterprise was like. Toy stores! While I was pretty good at things like this I never found similar ways of explaining sound.

  That is why the oral method alone puts the deaf way behind their peers.
• 

  Scott77

  	"...At least I know that disability does not have to mean dis-abled. I am just differently abled..."
  	Lady Lee

  The current and politically prefered correct term is not disabled children but children with disabilities. The same is true with Person with a Disability. Although both are labels, they carry significant meaning to the person affected. Its not disabled part that make the whole person disabled. You may have a hand that is disabled and yet still your other body parts are functionally intact.

  Scott77
• 

  Jeffro

  No we had to do some creative imagery.

  Yeah, I got that. But it's more fun to think you have a local pet shop that sells dinosaurs.
• 

  Scott77

  Diest, to answer your question quickly, She is very conceited and She also has a stuck up attitude when she is not in the public eye. I have never met her before, but I do not like conceited people at all. I am not interested to meet her in my lifetime. I have heard other stories about her too, enough said.

  Iamallcool >

  Hi Iamallcool, Please do not allow other people's perspective influence your views about Marlee Matlin. I think, we might better look at the big picture for what she has accompolished and the signficance of her achievements. Here is a link to her movie tittle: " Children of a lesser god" and my own reaction after watching it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ZN275szxo

  My critique of the movie titled, “Children of a lesser god” is mixed. Anyway, I watched it with a keen interest and a sustained enthusiasm. As someone who grew up in a state where service for deaf people is below acceptable standard compared to their hearing counterparts, I can say with conviction, the movie provide a mixed reaction on which to judge its impact on the characters with a perceived disability and the way how the large American society is portrayed. From my perspective, I think the parents and Administrator of a mainstreamed school represent a typical, large American society as portrayed in the movie. They are the ones who make decision and policies that forever, affects the way how deaf people lead their lives over the years.

  To these two entities, deaf people are stupid, worthless, and are best relegated to the menial labor or below standard jobs like floor clearing. Iam surprised even shocked when the ever controlling Administrator confronts James, the main character, regarding the outburst of Sarah as she worked in the kitchen. The ever paternalistic gentleman refers to Sarah as a maid even though; James has indicated clearly that he was taking Sarah to his apartment as a romantic companion, a kind of an elevated status. The Administrator for obvious reason seems to be in shock when he hears this statement. This particular movie segment raises important questions. Are deaf people and by implication, all persons with a disability considered to be unfit to date people without disabilities? Will the society tolerates that arrangement? And if yes, to what extent?

  When James eventually takes Sarah to his apartment, everyone suddenly is happy with that, reflecting a sudden change of attitude however superficial it appears to be. In this movie, James as the main character therefore, is a representative of agent of positive change. As a hearing actor, he learns American Sign Language and appears to effectively communicate with Sarah who is culturally Deaf. This highlights the fact that communication with deaf people will never be a barrier if society accepts and learn ASL. For Sarah, I believe, she represents members of the oppressed linguistic minority deaf community as ASL users and by extension, all people with disabilities in the large mainstream of American Society who are yearning for acceptance, recognition of their innate abilities including emotional, sexual, social, economic and psychological fulfillment.

  As a Deaf person, I can relate with Sarah’s personal experiences and treatment in society that is largely devoid of feelings as far as the needs of deaf people is concerned. Sarah is portrayed as unworthy, useless, lowly, cheap, and stupid and as someone who is unable to make decision on her own. The fact that she does the menial labor of clearing kitchen and mobbing the floor, a kind of job most American do not want to do, shows how far persons with disabilities are controlled with limited job opportunities. Judged from present day society perspective, it’s a kind job most associated with undocumented immigrants. However, Sarah is not, she is a U.S Citizen and moreover, a white woman at that.

  The movie segments clearly demonstrates to what extent, person with disabilities have been subjected and dominated by the large, powerful society as represented by the School Administrator and the hearing parents. It’s noteworthy; Sarah is an American citizen and a white woman, a status that should accord her more privilege. Unfortunately, her sorry treatment as depicted in the movie reflects the large unmet needs of persons with disabilities. Indeed, it’s a microcosm of the large non-disabled majority that does not recognize the innate, untapped potential of people with disabilities if given opportunities.

  I was particularly shocked to see the mean comments of Glen’s parents during the official parent-school gathering. As would be expected, the mainstreamed children entertained their parents. Without question, the fantastic, creative and awesome display of their music and dance skills overwhelmingly earned the standing ovation of their parents and school officials. However, Glen’s parents were an exception. His father is overheard stating, “Glen is singing. Actually, a stupid song” I think this was callous and to a large extent, a subtle reflection the large American society’s lack of recognition and skepticism as to the abilities and contribution of Persons with Disabilities. In other words, it’s like stating that PWDs’s performance is below standard compared to their non-disabled counterparts.

  At one time, during a private social function, James and Sarah are invited to play poker game. The school Administrator tells Sarah, “I have seen deaf people cheat like bandits” as a justification for disallowing James to sit closer to Sarah. Later when the Actress temporarily break up with James, and seek the refugee in the safety of her divorced mother’s apartment, Sarah as a deaf woman, is blamed for breakup of her mother’s relationship. This raises important social question. Is the birth of a deaf child by hearing parents’ means they will be the reason for their marital breakup? Should we blame deaf children whoever their parent’s breakup? Though not implicitly stated, the subtle message is that, whenever, deaf children are born from hearing parents, they portend social maladies and that, family breakup is inevitable.

  On a positive note, the movies successfully highlights the untapped potential of deaf people and portrays them as human being if given opportunities and are capable of performing anything except hear. The fact that Sarah as a former dorm cleaner is able to find a new job as a beautician, her deafness notwithstanding, demonstrates that deaf people and by extension, all persons with disabilities, are able to do everything as long as they get the proper education. Even more riveting is that, deaf people, regardless of their disability, are capable of expressing sexual intimacy and that; they have a real sexual need like their hearing counterparts. Sarah’s exemplary and fantastic experiences in display of love making in the movie is the proof of that. What they basically need is for the society’s understanding, acceptance and recognition that effective communication with them lies not in their ability to lip read or be able to master speech but rather, in the use of sign language for better and clear communication in every day aspect their interaction with the large American Society.

  Scott77
• 

  Lady Lee

  But it's more fun to think you have a local pet shop that sells dinosaurs

  Hey no joke some people are trying to clone a dinosaur from the old bones

  Scott

  The current and politically prefered correct term is not disabled children but children with disabilities. The same is true with Person with a Disability. Although both are labels, they carry significant meaning to the person affected. Its not disabled part that make the whole person disabled. You may be a hand that is disabled still your other body parts are functionally intact.

  I totally agree. I am a very independant person. I live in a large city where all buses are accessible for me to go on with the wheelchair. For me they have removed the disability. However on a recent trip to Montreal with my wheelchair they had no accessible buses off the island. People in wheelchairs were required to use adapted transit. And because I had not appled for their service six months ahead of time they denied me service. They created the dis-ability

  They started to change the term from the term from the disability first to one where the person was first. That is as it should be. But clearly not all places want to see it that way