What scripture bothered your concious?

by stillhurts 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    Welcome Stillhurts! As you have probably gathered, the are many points of view on this board. Some Believe the Bible is inspired by God. Others think it's lost a lot in translation and wonder why God didn't preserve it better. Still others think it's worthless since they don't believe there is a God anymore.

    Speaking of the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. The more I gave it serious thought, the more I concluded that it could not possibly be a literal number. In the 1st century when thousands converted at a single event, the # was undoubtedly filled THEN. Assuming that after the 3rd century absolutely NO one was approved by God (a ridiculous idea) until Paster Russell shows up, there were more than 144,000 Bible Students/JWs before the majic year of 1935.

    Now there's a governing body who didn't start partaking till there were MILLIONS of living JWs, not to mention those that had already died. Either 144,000 is not and never has been a literal # or the GB is going to have to come up with a secondary class of Anointed with no specific # in order to explain away the growing amount of partakers. Oh, thats right, they don't want to count partakers anymore. No surprise why they don't! Sheeeeesh

  • clarity
    clarity

    King .... that's it isn't it, so calculated and dishonest!

    Ugly cult teaching.

    clarity

  • Rydor
    Rydor

    Many scriptures bother me. Here's one account that springs to mind:

    In Judges chapter 19 some Benjamites in the city of Gibeah basically go "Sodom and Gomorrah" on this traveler who stays the night there, and spend the whole night gang raping his concubine to the point of killing her.

    The dude is understandably pissed and so he decides to let all the tribes of Israel know what was done, which he proceeds to do in a very icky way (I'll let you read that one.)

    To make a long story short the rest of Israel decides to make war on the tribe of Benjamin. Now, rather than acting presumptuously and making war on their brother without permission, they actually ask Yahweh for guidance:

    Now the sons of Israel arose, went up to Bethel, and inquired of God and said, “Who shall go up first for us to battle against the sons of Benjamin?” Then the Lord said, “Judah shall go up first.” (Judges 20:18)

    Now since the Almighty himself gave them battle instructions, you'd think that would mean he would, you know, lend them a helping hand....right?

    Nope.

    Then the people of Israel rose in the morning and encamped against Gibeah. 20 And the men of Israel went out to fight against Benjamin, and the men of Israel drew up the battle line against them at Gibeah. 21 The people of Benjamin came out of Gibeah and destroyed on that day 22,000 men of the Israelites. (Judges 20:19-21)

    So God tells the tribe of Judah to lead the offensive....and leaves 'em hanging. 22,000 men dead. 22,000 families without husbands and fathers.

    So what do the Israelites do? Well again, rather than "pushing ahead" and doing what they want, they again consult the matter with the big guy. "Uh hey Yahweh, are you sure about this?"

    22 But the people, the men of Israel, took courage, and again formed the battle line in the same place where they had formed it on the first day. 23 rAnd the people of Israel went up and wept before the Lord until the evening. And they inquired of the Lord , “Shall we again draw near to fight against our brothers, the people of Benjamin?” And the Lord said, “Go up against them.” (Judges 20:22-23)

    "Okay well there you have it: God himself gave us the green light...um...again!" Surely this god of love, this manly person of war, wouldn't leave us high and dry a second time?

    24 So the people of Israel came near against the people of Benjamin the second day. 25 And Benjamin went against them out of Gibeah the second day, and destroyed 18,000 men of the people of Israel. All these were men who tdrew the sword. 26 Then all the people of Israel, the whole army, went up and came to uBethel and wept. They sat there before the Lord and fasted that day until evening, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord .

    A little puzzling hmmm? Now as the account goes on to show, they go up a third time and end up winning the battle. Still, the question arises: why did this supremely loving and just God knowingly send 40,000 men to their deaths? 40,000 sons, fathers, and husbands?

    Oh, perhaps the Benjamites had iron chariots, and that's why he he couldn't help out the Israelites? In case you didn't know, iron chariots are God's one weakness:

    The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots. (Judges 1:19)

    Ah, the things you can find in the Bible...

  • Balaamsass
    Balaamsass

    Welcome Still hurts!

    "by thier fruits you shall know them" Pedophiles, backbiting, financial irregularities, not caring for widows and orphans, Pharasaical attitudes.

    "Satan is the father of the Lie" ( Theocratic strategy).

    "My yolk is light"- Hey being a JW is harder than being an orthadox jew- AND 10x more confusing. What happened to Jesus ?

    The Ass

  • stillhurts
    stillhurts

    Thanks for all your comments. Interesting to read the scriptural interpretations that bugged you. I will go back and read the comments a little more carefully when I have more time.

    And thanks wise king solomon. You are right. I meant conscience. So ha! I guess I proved one bible point, that I am imperfect :) And I rely on spell check too much. And ok then, I love God with all my brain, which might not be saying a lot. (cause its small) :)

    Thanks 3rdgen. I realize that there are a lot of viewpoints on here. I certainly will tend to side with the ones that believe that the bible is the inspired word of God. I feel bad if some were so hurt by this religion that they lost their faith in GOD and his word. I hope we all can find some comfort and support from one another.

    Look forward to getting to know you all. Hope to find some friends here.

  • Aware!
    Aware!

    Welcome stillhurts! I'm not as experienced or knowledgeable as some posters here, but you are free to PM me if you need to talk. I usually check my inbox every time I log in.

    I haven't finished reading the Bible, but when I started reading it I followed a chronological reading plan.

    The criteria for true prophets at Deuteronomy 18:20-22 is one of the first things that bothered me. The WTBTS has a long list of failed date predictions, and I never bought the whole 'new light' rubbish which was taken out of context. I never believed that "the faithful and discreet slave" moral parable was a prophetic allegory. Like Rydor, I too was bothered when I read Judges. I should start writing down everything that bothers me as I read to examine it later.

    Oh, and does it conclude scriptures you found bizarre? If so, then dipping a bird in another bird's blood is one (Leviticus 14:6). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Rydor pointed out this scripture:

    The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots. (Judges 1:19)

    Hey, man, what do you want? YHWH SAID they had iron chariots! That was like saying they had F-22 Raptors, back in those days.... Maybe iron is like God's Kryptonite? :)

    My fave story is the Flood, which I think of as "Armageddon, Take One".

    So God is agitated with man, due to "evil in their hearts" (see pg 1), so regrets making mankind ('regret' being a surprise emotion, that is inconsistent with knowing future events, as an omniscient being; but I digress). So God decides to WIPE OUT mankind and does so, killing innocent babies and animals in the process. One year later, God flip-flops, regretting wiping out mankind, SO He created a rainbow as His promise to NEVER, EVER, do it again (as opposed to just showing one of the fruitages of His own spirit: self-control!). Granted, many cultures have myths to explain what rainbows are and where they come from, but FEW demand killing off entire populations of Planets in order to tell the story!

    So God did ALL of that to eliminate the problem of "evil in man's heart", wiping out all of mankind, except for 8 (whom God presumably checked beforehand to confirm they were non-carriers of the 'evil in their hearts' problem), but what do we have on Earth, immediately after the Flood? Men, with evil in their hearts, on the next page.

    Fail much, God?

    Not that it matters: it's a silly ancient myth inspired by Mesopotamia's older Epic of Gilgamesh story....

  • tec
    tec

    I love God with all my heart, even though they tell me my stopping is proof that "i don't love Jehovah anymore". Boy did that hurt the first time they said it, and it still cuts me up every time. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Oh, honey, I'm sorry they say things like this to you. (((stillhurts))) I know exactly how this feels. (not from jws... I never made it far enough to get baptized... but from others who claim faith in God and Christ)

    It always hurts worse from people who are supposed to be with us in our love for God and his Son. More so if those people are supposed to also know you.

    They can't understand. Don't let them give you doubts for your love for God or Christ. (not that you are planning on allowing them in the first place)

    You know you, and what you feel.

    Scriptures that bothered me:

    Well, more of a doctrine... but Jesus being Michael always bothered me. They denounced the trinity for 'going beyond the things written', but then they turned around and did the same thing by making Jesus, Michael. Never sat right with me. There are many others, but this was the biggest hindrance to my joining them.

    I will think of more to add to your list in a couple of days. I just saw your post and wanted to welcome you to the forum.

    Peace to you!

    tammy

  • BreathoftheIndianNose
    BreathoftheIndianNose

    My beginning to question watchtower doctrin came as a result of my studies of the bible from a scientific viewpoint. Basically the entirety of Genesis came up wanting, along with a large amount of scriptures in the Bible. But the things that stuck with me the most, were issues of morality. I never knew whether to laugh, cry or barf when I would read 1 Sam 18 espesially vs. 23-29. How a man like David could be supported by a God who is love, just doesn't make sense. But there are a wide array of scriptures that are crazy in different ways.

    Also, welcome!

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    It's always funny when someone says "Such-and-such a scripture can't possibly mean subjective irrational interpretation! It clearly means different subjective irrational interpretation."

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