Evidence for God...

by tec 251 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec

    We invent our gods according to our needs....... it's not rocket science. The gods we invent serve us and in return we pay lip service to them so the less intelligent among us will bow down and be obedient. A god's accomplishments or legend is based on handed down camp fire stories greatly exaggerated. It's best if a god is fearsome but cute.

    Man can and does mold the attributes of god to suit himself, I agree. This however, does not explain the 'creation' of a god or creator or the spiritual.

    As the times change we update our most cherished gods with selected historic writings, oral traditions, published books and tracks and the sermons of hyper excited TV evangelicals. There is even a man in Rome who wears pointy red slippers and pontificates on the role of women in our society and I am told he is never wrong.

    Same as above.

    We empower our gods with the knowledge that our collective culture has. However our gods are never able to possess more knowledge then man has at the time of their creation. This is one of those facts that does not change. If we didn't think it up neither do they. But from time to time new ideas and information has to be added to the god soup. Our gods never learn more or better until we know more or better and share it with them. Man is both the driver of the god and the brake.

    Now on this I must disagree. I think that there are advanced things that some know, before mankind in general knows... learned from God, or through the Spirit.

    I think science catches up to those things, in the sense of proving them...though recognizing that someone was speaking of 'the big bang' and 'sound waves' from 'God spoke', is a different matter. So I think it is more the language that is limited to understand more scientific things, and so they are explained in some sort of metaphor, or simple illustration.

    Putting on and taking off the flesh -> moving from matter to energy, perhaps in understanding with standing wave theory. Perhaps also moving from one realm or dimension to another... spiritual to physical... the garden of eden vs outside the garden (the physical)

    Miracles of healing... advanced knowledge, of perhaps mind over matter, or something we have yet to scientifically discover.

    Who invented the Christian god? Jesus did with help from his followers. They needed a new god for a new time. Jesus wanted to be the Messiah but the Jews wouldn't have him. Since the Hebrew god wasn't light of foot nor very generous to non Jews Jesus decided he wanted a forward looking god instead of all that looking back stuff. He wanted a more loving god, no more stoning or multiple wives (though that got screwed up over the years). So they took the Hebrew God and retro fitted him with some new universal ideas. Paul the marketing guru helped put the finishing touches on the new Christian god and opened him big time. He was a hugh hit with the Greeks and Romans who really needed a god back in their lives.

    Of course, Christ did not recant even to the point of death; not likely to happen if you were just inventing a god or hoping to be a messiah. Paul, et al, were persecuted, beaten, mocked, imprisoned, executed... a huge hit among a few; a huge target among those in power.



  • tec

    tec's gonna reply to my comments now. And just as i'm climbing in between the sheets.

    Lol... too funny :)



  • tec

    So, once you posit that creation came from NOTHING...then you cause a logical problem! However, the Church managed to corner the market on
    creation that way!

    Who posits this? Does a religion posit this? Because it makes no sense, even on behalf of the 'positer'.

    If life came from God (the lifeforce), then obviously it did not come from nothing.



  • tec

    Interesting site, Still.

    I don't think I used any of that though.

    I will use spiritual... or hearing in spirit, which I suppose could be likened to spiritual awakening. But that is because it is an apt description. I don't use born again, because I am not sure what that is supposed to mean... at least I am not certain that what is taught according to religion, is the same meaning as what Christ taught. I can only speak of what I know.



  • tec

    Firstly its important to realise evidence for God is not evidence for the accuracy or authenticity of the Bible or its God.




  • still thinking
    still thinking

    some more words to add to your repertoire tec....LOL

  • tec

    You so quickly just dismiss other ideas. So I would put more confidence in what experts on the brain and culture say than in what a religionist/spiritual person who dismisses other possibilities so easily has to say.

    Sure. Are there any studies on man conceiving of something beyond his known sphere of reality? Other than theories surrounding the creation of a creator?

    Sure, it hasn't been done by experiment yet- life from lifelessness. But it will one day...

    This is faith. No different than mine... except for the recipient of that faith. I am certain that science will one day prove the spiritual.

    and believers will say that scientists stacked the deck in favor of the circumstances.

    Some might. That would probably be a good thing though... to keep the testing more rigorous and honest.

    But forget that. Even if science never gets there, your statements reveal that you just dismiss the idea without thought.

    How so? I have watched talks on physics (preferably dumbed down for the lay person). I read all the science threads that pertain, and I KNOW that someone will post such a discovery or anything that implies it as soon as it is out there, on this forum, lol. I have also reflected upon it. Hence, I received an answer to something I was questioning and thinking about.

    Chemical and magnetic and gravitational reactions and other reactions happen in the non-living things of the universe. Except for our tiny part of the universe, we have not found life yet, but we don't see an "inanimate" universe or a universe of life. Oh, it may be out there. I bet it is. But it's not like your paragraph above states, that there was nothing and then there was something just sitting still and for no reason, it became life. Sorry, it's a bit more complicated than that, but it is possible to understand.

    Oh, no doubt it is more complicated than that. Plus, we are babes in this universe. Some of my problem is in the conflicting sentiments that Krauss expressed in his talk.

    So many of us have been there. Some of us saw the truth when we were JW's because we so wanted it to be the truth. No different. So sorry if I don't jump on that bandwagon. What has been written is no wiser than Lao Tzu's sayings, but that is a matter of opinion. What was written about Christ has been reinterpreted by the readers, also. He said nothing of banning gay marriage, yet many today talk as if he did. Wars are fought in the name of what he said, although he is peaceful. People today do so many dispicable things applying what they think are the things Christ said.

    I know. So many people do things against what he taught, or add things to what He taught to make it fit in what they want to be truth. But then... that is them neither seeing nor following the truth that he actually DID teach.

    It's kind of nice for you when you try to place testimonial evidence in a personal state like that. You try to use it as a trump card that nobody can touch, but then give yourself the backdoor that you are so big to understand if others don't accept it because it is "to the person given that evidence."

    I am not using it as anything, OTWO... just speaking honestly.

    Testimonial evidences are contradictory to each other in many cases, much the same as the various applications of what is written in the Bible. One person "knows" what Jesus wants from them and that the Holy Spirit is named Methuselah Yaweh and another person "knows" that Jesus wants something different and the Holy Spirit doesn't have such a name. And even weeding out the conmen and the crazy people, you believe hard enough and you start to see (if not hear) directions from above. I know I did at one point, but I am much better now.

    Which is why we must test the spirits... weigh if what we hear is from Christ or another spirit, (even if that other simply means a spirit of greed or anger or hurt.) It is also why we should not listen to what others have to state on its own merit, but ask and test for ourselves.

    In the end though, it is Christ who will sort out those who speak from the lie from those who speak from the truth. But if you weigh your thoughts, or deeds, or beliefs, against love of one another, and also the golden rule... then you are following Him as best as you can. And if you make a mistake (as we all do), then 'love covers over a multitude of sins'. Including - or rather most especially - the love that Christ showed for us... covering over our sins.



  • tec

    All caught up :)

    I would like to thank mP, and OTWO... and I notice that Still got in there at the end... for making page 3 NOT be all me, lol.



  • ziddina
    "The evidence is within the results knowsnothing...which only goes to prove that bio has not 'fallen away from the right path' and is 'heading in the right direction" and "come alive spiritually"
    Why you cannot see that I just don't know...it is clear for all to see. ..." Still Thinking, page #2, post #5116

    Still Thinking's posted list on the same page, post #5115:

    "Here is an interesting site showing people how to give their testimony about christ...and some useful 'catch phrases'. Now I am pointing out the word testimony because we seem to be using legal terms with the word evidence. Supplanting the idea that this reasoning is based on fact and can be truly defended by evidence.

    There are only six steps. So it is easy for the believer to put across their point without alienating people or drawing unnecessary attention to the bible. It also makes the 'facts' that are put forth very difficult to prove or disprove. This method allows the believer to debate without actual proveable evidence.
    Avoid using "born again" Instead use:
    • spiritual birth
    • spiritual renewal
    • to come alive spiritually
    • given a new life
    Avoid using "saved"
    Instead use:
    • rescued
    • delivered from despair
    • found hope for life
    Avoid using "lost"
    Instead use:
    • heading in the wrong direction
    • separated from God
    • had no hope
    Avoid using "Gospel"
    Instead use:
    • God's message to man
    • the good news about Christ's purpose on earth
    Avoid using "sin"
    Instead use:
    • rejecting God
    • missing the mark
    • falling away from the right path
    • a crime against God's law
    • disobedience to God

    Aaaaand, to "play" that game....

    "only goes to prove that bio has not 'fallen away from the right path' .... "• falling away from the right path..."

    "heading in the right direction"... "come alive spiritually"...

    I see that you have indeed provided some new phrases, Still Thinking...

  • tec

    Oh, and Zid as well... sneaking in right at the bottom of the page too ;)

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