URGENT: Please Sign White House Petition to "Protect Americans from Dangerous Cults: Modify USC Title 26 § 501 Tax Exemption Requirements"

by ABibleStudent 130 Replies latest members politics

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  ohiocowboy

  A Bible Student,

  Thank you for starting the petition, as well as taking the time to write letters. I appreciate your optimistic attitude, even in the face of adversity from those who feel that nothing will be accomplished by what you are doing. Who knows, even though the petition may not work out as you would like it to, it may help cause a ripple effect. Even if your petition or letters get only one person to think, it will have been well worth the effort!

  You have every reason to feel good about yourself. If everyone were as willing as you are to take the time to write just one letter, start one petition, start one blog or website, etc. the Watchtower would soon be shown for the lie that it really is.

  Thanks again!!!
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  ABibleStudent

  Hi ohiocowboy, Thanks for your words of encouragement!! Please pass the word. It would be worth it if the White House petition inspired even one person to dare to think or dream of a better way to free people from dangerous cults like the WTBTS.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  ABibleStudent

  Band on the Run - Also, I strongly believe the personal attacks keep repeating b/c it bumps the thread. Anyone who would write what Sic Temper wrote to me is a fool.

  Hi Band on the Run, If you are wrote the above to me, you are absolutely wrong about my intentions. I respond to people who post to this thread to keep this thread in the top of the active threads, but that is the only reason I respond. I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I will confront people when I feel that they are being disrespectful to me and to other posters.

  If you feel that I am baiting you, why post to this thread? It doesn't matter to me whether you post to this thread or not.

  Although I appreciate it a lot when people post to this thread, I have many different ideas about how to keep this thread in the active list of threads until May 26, 2012. After May 26th, I will probably not post to this thread, because I will be posting to another thread about revising the US Tax Code to protect Americans from dangerous cults.

  Sic Semper Tyrannis - A Bible Student clarified it perfectly. You are only after self-promotion, and every argument you present is always pre-faced with "I'm a lawyer, so I know what I am speaking about..." or the even more pretentious "As a constitutional law expert, I'd advise you to look up [insert caselaw here]...". I'm sorry you interpreted my criticism of that as a personal attack. I was attacking your transparent method of intellectual intimidation, where 90% of your argument is backed up by inflated claims of legal knowledge and prowess. You provide case citations and random references to US and British history, but you fail to apply the principle. You assume that just by quoting such subjects that the reader will be awed by your apparent knowledge and concede the point, and make you the winner by default.

  Hi Sic Semper Tyrannis, Thank you very much for showing restraint and trying to explain to Band on the Run your opinion of her posts in as gentle a manner as you did. I do agree with many of the points that you tried to explain to Band on the Run.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  Sic Semper Tyrannis

  Refute my claims, refute my claims. Argue me on merits. We do, but then you come back with this annoying level of condescension backed up by professional qualifications and research that you have done. Petitions are non-binding. No shit. All Robert wanted was to gather enough signatures in order for them to read it. He admitted that it is unlikely for a law come directly out of this. All he is doing with this petition is his legal right to be heard by his elected representatives. Then you bully him by telling him how wrong he is about everything and how right you are. I happen to agree with you in that this is not likely to have much of an effect on public policy, but you don't need to wave your own flag in order to state this. I called you a fraud because your reasoning, argumentation, and self-congratulatory nature along with your writing, spelling, and grammar skills do not befit someone of your claimed stature. You asked me to prove this. Short of knowing who you are, where you work, and college transcripts, I can't and you know this. It's like if I told you that I was an uncredited co-writer for the last five albums of an influential, but unnamed rock band. I also spent the night in the bed of an attractive A-list Hollywood celebrity. Prove me wrong. It's impossible to do so since I only made the claim and did not provide necessary details for identification and verification. But the claim itself and the fact that I felt it was relavant enough to post here ought to raise a reasonable level of doubt. Don't get me wrong, I respect your privacy as much as anyone else's here. But don't think you can make these claims about yourself and have people automatically believe you and give you the benefit of the doubt. You'd much rather have everyone praise you as the reigning legal expert here on JWN. If that is your goal in life, then perhaps we should just concede that honorific title to you and give you a plastic crown to wear. It's getting to be amusing how desperate you are getting for recognition of your talents here. It wouldn't be so sad if people were actually buying it.

  Robert - I hate to see people bullied over something as innocent and well-intentioned as your petition. I don't think you made any grandoise claims regarding its effectiveness, and it's pleasing to see someone have a level of passion over this like you do. Either sign it, or don't sign it. People who irrationally attack you on it deserve to be called out on their own dubious claims.
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  ABibleStudent

  Sic Semper Tyrannis - Robert - I hate to see people bullied over something as innocent and well-intentioned as your petition. I don't think you made any grandoise claims regarding its effectiveness, and it's pleasing to see someone have a level of passion over this like you do. Either sign it, or don't sign it. People who irrationally attack you on it deserve to be called out on their own dubious claims.

  Hi Sic Semper Tyrannis, Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate all feedback about what I'm trying to accomplish, and I like positive feedback a lot more. I'm sure that everyone else likes positive feedback more than negative feedback too.

  Negative feedback is good when a dialogue can be establish to tweek ideas without throwing away basic fundamental principles. Hopefully, when I ask clarifying questions of people, who I disagree with, it is not considered bullying by them. If I cannot agree with someone on basic fundamental principles, do not have major objections with an idea, and see some positive benefit from an idea, I will encourage anyone, who is passionate about an idea, to do what is necessary (within legal and moral limits) to achieve it.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  ABibleStudent

  Thanks a million to the 84 people , who have signed the White House petition at http://wh.gov/Er4!!

  Unfortunately there are only 13 days left for 24,916 Americans to sign the petition before it will expire. I would appreciate comments about how to inspire Americans to sign this petition.

  I realize that this petition does not have the same emotional and political appeal to politicians as same-sex marriage. I do feel that protecting Americans from dangerous cults is a more important issue than same-sex marriage, because same-sex marriages do not victimize anyone but dangerous cults do!!

  Currently, I am working on a Facebook page to promote the current White House petition as well as any follow on petition. Please visit
  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Protecting-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults/264002310365016. I would appreciate any comments to improve this Facebook page, as well as, Facebook members liking it.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
  Robert
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  Band on the Run

  Robert, Band, your slave, may peace be with you. Who appointed the arbiter of what people can believe and not believe. YOu are not a public official. A public official could not take away the exemption from a particular religion b/c there is a const'l bar. Throwing AA and arrogant around won't solve your basic problem. The WT does not hold a gun to anyone's head. Actions have consequences. What happened to personal responsibility? Witnesses make a clear choice. Unless they are incompetent, it is their choice and none of your business. Are you now the Grand Inquisitor? Is so, you can get free busienss cards from Vista.

  My arrogance (in your opinion, and with your First Amendment's positions how much is your opinion worth) aside, refute any of my statements. Just a little bitty one.

  This triggers me no end b/c I grew up with multiple relatives who did hard time b/c they were Witnesses. They were not people in a WT book. Rather, they were my blood family. The Const'n kept them out of concentration camps. America was very right and very clerical in the 30s nd 40s. The Const'n was inept. The Supreme Court decision came too late to save my mother. Yes, I am passionate about this topic.

  You are breaking bond with one of the important tenets of our society in America. Whose religion is next? Hundreds of millions of Americans turn to you to decide what they are able to believe. I don't think so.

  Peace to you and all who you love. Hare Krishna. Give Peace a Chance. Cold Turkey. Blowin' in the Wind. Helter Skelter.
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  ABibleStudent

  Band on the Run - Robert, Band, your slave, may peace be with you. Who appointed the arbiter of what people can believe and not believe. YOu are not a public official. A public official could not take away the exemption from a particular religion b/c there is a const'l bar. Throwing AA and arrogant around won't solve your basic problem. The WT does not hold a gun to anyone's head. Actions have consequences. What happened to personal responsibility? Witnesses make a clear choice. Unless they are incompetent, it is their choice and none of your business. Are you now the Grand Inquisitor? Is so, you can get free busienss cards from Vista.

  Hi Band on the Run, Are you feeling ok? Are you taking what I write about your writing style and logic development too personally?

  Have you read any of Steve Hassan's books ("Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves")? If you had, maybe you would not have written what you did in quotes and that I bolded above.

  Because I wrote the White House petition and I am trying to promote the White House petition on JWN, JWSF, and Facebook, I feel responsible for rebutting other posters' misleading statements. I have never written that I am an arbitrator. I have written that you do not substantiate your opinion with quotes, references, and/or links to authoritative sources. Readers of this thread will decide for themselves. I just don't like it when other posters write unsubstantiated, deceptive, and/or misleading statements about the White House petition.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  ABibleStudent

  Thanks a million to the 87 people , who have signed the White House petition at http://wh.gov/Er4 !!

  Unfortunately there are only 9 days left for 24,913 Americans to sign the petition before it will expire on May 26, 2012. I'm starting to feel that it is better that less than 150 people sign the petition, so that people will not get confused with two similiar petitions being displayed on the White House website. One thing that I have learned from comments by other posters in this thread and two other similiar threads is that I should use a different label than "dangerous cult". How about Dangerous Orgs? Some people may feel that dangerous cult applies to only religious organizations, instead of to all organizations.

  Also, I am revising the Facebook page for this petition to provide additional background information to people, such as video clips about Dangerous Orgs from the past.

  I encourage everyone to read and comment on the following draft petition and to visit the Facebook page for the petition.

  Protect Millions of Americans from Dangerous Organizations: Modify USC Title 26 § 501 Tax Exemption Requirements ( WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO: ) Use Presidential influence to support revising USC Title 26 § 501 and Executive powers so that all tax exempt organizations must promote freedom of religion and speech to its members and employees. Any organization that uses intimidation and coercion through its leaders, and does not promote freedom of religion and speech to its members and employees would lose its tax exempt status for not less than 3 years. The IRS would be responsible to promulgate regulations; investigate members’, employees’, and former members’ complaints; and enforce the intent of legislation. Dangerous Orgs promote using shunning to their members to intimidate them to blindly follow what the Org’s leadership orders and to coerce unrepentant former members. To learn more visit http://on.fb.me/wh-petition .

  I would appreciate any comments to improve this Facebook page, as well as, Facebook members liking it.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
  Robert
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  Band on the Run

  Wikipedia's article on cults directed me to an article that stated the perjorative term of "cult" is too unweildy and raises serious social concerns. Cults are religions that we do not personally endorse. They coined the term New Religious Movement and Jehovah's Witnesses is one of the prime examples. They detail the conditions for classifying any religion as a New Religion Movement. The list included some of what I consider innocuous and bizarre churches.

  You have the right to petition. It is clear I am passionate about this topic. Americans have very strong views about religion and government. The conservative Supreme Court justices have turned back the clock on separation of church and state. Accomodation is the new buzz word.

  Again, I am making conservative statements but individuals must assume responsibility. Dictatorships establish what religions are permissible or not. Hundreds of thousands of Europeans died when dangerousness was defined by government. Criminal conduct can be punished under existing law.

  Perhaps I should walked away long ago from this thread. I thought lack of knowledge was the problem. My sin was having a hope that trying to impart knowledge of what the law is would cause a change in tactics. All religions could conceivably lose exemption and such act would be const'l. Most people do not join cults and have no bitter, relentless feelings. Futility exists with one tactic. The same end can be accomplished in anothe manner. One would think achieving the end would be important. Some people love their means. I must confess that I freely signed wacky petitions when I was much younger. Victory is so much sweeter.