Dreaded elder's visit come and gone.

Vidqun

The dreaded elder's visit has come and gone. This is a condensed version. It went something like this. E=elder; V=Vidqun.

V: I believe God has withdrawn his spirit from the leadership and congs of JWs because of all the bad things happening. E.g. defective judicial decisions, especially with pedofiles, UN-NGO fiasco, importation of pharasaic type laws, etc.

E: These brothers are not inspired, but guided by holy spirit.

V: To say they were guided by holy spirit would be an affront to the holy spirit. God (or his spirit) should not always be blamed for human cockups.

E: I believe this is God's org. We are the only org. to preach the good news, declare God's name, teach about the kingdom.

V: Yes, the Israelites also were God's chosen nation, until he rejected them.

V: Before the modernday JW came into being, who were the ones spreading Christianity? Where did the JWs get their information from?

E: Quoting Luke 12:41. Faithful steward.

V: Please read on: If the steward starts beating the men and maidservants, he will be punished with the greatest severity (cf. Luk. 12:45, 46). This is made clear by the prophecies, e.g. Ez. 38, 39; Dan. 11:40-45; Zech. 13:7-14:5; Rev. 11:7, 8. God's judgment starts with his own house (2 Pet. 4:17).

E: Hebrews 10:24-26: We are ordered to attend meetings, if not, it could lead to willful sin.

V: I would be very careful to make such an assumption. Not even the Society goes that far. They admit that the forsaking of the meetings and the next verse, sinning willfully, should not be used together. If you believe that, you are deviating from the Society's teachings.

E: Each must decide for himself what to believe.

V: I agree. Please read Rom. 14:12, 13: "So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God. Therefore let us not be judging one another any longer, but rather make this your decision, not to put before a brother a stumbling block or a cause for falling."

E: We agree to disagree.

V: I have always followed the dictates of my conscience. Nothing has changed.

E: So how must we view you? Usually if one dissociates oneself, one writes a letter.

V: No, I will not be writing a letter. I have others to consider.

Comment: He is quite young. Perhaps that would make him think. He is a young, uber-elder, so I doubt it. Somehow, I don't think he will come alone, next time. Feel free to comment.

discreetslave

Did elders always give up this quickly? Every meeting with them related or recorded they ask people are they going to write a letter after the 1st or 2nd meeting. Though they didn't do that with me I guess because I'm a woman and my husbnad was present.

Vidqun

DS, this is his second visit. This was a new cong. for me. I am an ordinary publisher, refusing to become a MS, although a Witness for over 30 years. I went out on a Wednesday in the service. My time was limited because of work obligations. I was ignored for about two and a half years. I am a free thinker, thus a persona non grata. Nobody would socialize with me at all. Of course, I was called on to do sound at the meetings as well as the odd Bible Reading. There's a shortage of MS. I am glad nobody bothered. This made things much easier for me. But then, I am quite resolute in what I believe. I think he got the drift.

00DAD

E: Each must decide for himself what to believe.

Then what's the problem?

Oh, I get it, we all decide for ourself what to believe, but if we decide to believe something different than what they tell us to believe, then we get DF'd or they call it Disassociation.

Phizzy

Well done Viddy, just watch out for the two Elder visit, one Elder is no problem, youcan deny what you said or say he misconstrued it, with two one or other of them will ask you the "loyalty" question, "Do you still think JW's is the true religion, the channel god is using, god's organization" etc Something along those lines. Whatever your answer is, they have their prescious two witnesses.

You then have a choice, if you want it declared you have DA'd yourself, you can tell the truth, or you can lie, or you can get away sometimes with just saying nothing, I know bros who have done all of those.

If you do not care if they DF you or DA you,them simply ask them to prove that it is what they say, say" I am having doubts, in the light of the scrpture in James about those having doubts perhaps you kind bros would prove to me that it is as you say, God's Org." or whatever.

Then have some fun.

If you push this too far with a nazi type elder he will say you have DA'd yourself by your attitiude, so go careful if you wish to remain officially still in.

Good luck, I know you can handle yourself, I feel almost sorry for the Elders, they are not reallly trained for the likes of us, we know too much, compared to them.

leavingwt

IMHO, you've given them enough to disfellowship you, if they have a desire to do so.

If this is not the desired outcome, you may want to refrain from speaking with the JWs.

00DAD

Phizzy: the "loyalty" question, "Do you still think JW's is the true religion, the channel god is using, god's organization" etc Something along those lines. Whatever your answer is, they have their prescious two witnesses.

I've heard many people bring this up on several threads. Has anyone ever challenged the elders on even ASKING this question? What is the scriptural basis for asking someone a question like this? What direction have the elders gotten from the WTBTS to ask something like this?

Up until a few years ago, I was an elder for over 20 years and never heard any direction from the Society to ask someone such a question and I never heard any other elder do so as part of an agenda to "get them."

Vidqun

Thanks for the input. At this stage I don't give a damn which direction they want to jump. Only problem is my mother. Don't want to make it akward for her. So from here on, I will be avoiding all elder visits, in whatever form they want to organize it. Yes, and thank you to all the contributors on JWN. This has prepared me for all eventualities. It's like a film script. You know exactly what's coming. Thank goodness they don't encourage the R&F to study or develop their brain. It's a turkey shoot. Their standard format of attack do not change. Funny, that's what they used to say of Satan, his machinations ("crafty acts") stay the same.

troubled mind

V , You handled yourself very well ! I think you gave this young Elder a lot to think about . Hopefully they will just let it rest ,but don't be surprised if two Elders want to visit you next .

freetosee

E: Quoting Luke 12:41. Faithful steward.

V: Please read on: If the steward starts beating the men and maidservants, he will be punished with the greatest severity (cf. Luk. 12:45, 46).

very good!

Dreaded elder's visit come and gone.

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