I need your advice to reach my daughters!

by Cirkeline 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Cirkeline
    Cirkeline

    I just spoke to my eldest daughter (I'll name her Liv here) on the phone. I am still shaking all over my body. Partly cause I'm scared to death, partly cause I feel there is a small hope. She is 20 years old. Married since 19 and lives in another part of the country. I raised her a JW. Yes I grief the fact that I did. She got baptised at 15. Very devoted.

    I no longer devoted....far from. And she knows I'm still in only because thats my only chance to be her mother! She sort of accepts this, though I know it makes her sad. I might die in Harmageddon because of my disbelief. I can feel this is one of her consernes. She also thinks I'm a bit hypocrit for staying....

    We talked about dayly life, and then I asked her about her little sister (17 years old, I'll name her Sue here) also moved out, and veeery devoted. They have spent holiday together recently. Lately I have felt that my youngest avoids me and dont take initiative to visit or phone me. Odd, since she's the one who has been closest to me allways. I asked Liv if she knew why, and that was the start of our real conversation!

    Well, as I had suspected, the reason why Sue avoids me is because I no longer go to the meetings, give her advices that is not according to GB policy, etc etc. It is soooo hard for me to keep my mouth shut. I then told her that it was exactly what I thought.

    Then she really opens up and share her views, frustrations about me, and ofcours defends JW, allthough she too has been disapointed about a thing or two, the childabuse inside the org etc. But, she states, its been taken care of mum!! I tell her my consernes, and I beg her from the deepest of my heart, to do research, to investigate the doctrines, the history of the org. And of course she tells me she has read alot, but wount read anything written by "bitter whiny people that are angry at JW". I tell her it is so important for her to be 100% sure of what she believes in really is the thruth. I tell her she owes it to her self, her family, her future children, because of the great impact it has on our whole life. I tell her I would be glad to suggest litterature that can help her to dig in deap on doctrines, history, and make her able to decide if JW doctrines are waterproof or not. But I tell her that I am afraid to do so, and that if it came to some elders ears, I could risc getting DF. Then she says, that, "no, I dont believe that"! And she actually let me send her an e-mail on this!

    Well, I intend to follow that small hope inside of me, that sence that she actually understand that it is important to do research. I have to take the risk, even if it scares me to death. I know deep inside of me that if Liv gets to understand the thruth about the thruth, then she will be the one person who will be able to reach her little sister too.

    So, all you wonderfull people on this forum; Please help me out on this one. What sober, valid, not "whiny" litterature would you suggest I'd recomend my daughter to read that (in my dreams?)will be able to open her mind, and give her the guts to take the red pill, be free, and able to live a full life.

    Huh, I'm still shaking.

    Big hug from Cirkeline

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Hi, Cirkeline...

    What I would recommend, is using the "search" function on this website to look up "How I got my family out"....

    There are several success stories told on this board.

    I think that reading them would be the best place to start...

    Best results!! I hope that you are ultimately successful in getting BOTH daughters "out"...

  • ziddina
  • tornapart
    tornapart

    Hi Cirkeline, I found these links on here.. and added them to my favourites. All the WT history you could wish for. I'm sure you could find something to help you. Try reading In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz, he uses a LOT of the Society's old publications to back up his arguments. If you tell her where to go in the Society's own literature she cannot call it apostacy.

    http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/

    http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/jwhistory.html

  • Ding
    Ding

    Ray Franz's book Crisis of Conscience isn't whiny. If your daughter would read that, it would be great. But he's a well known "apostate" so she might refuse to read it.

    If so, how about having her read WT literature itself, things printed by the "faithful and discreet slave"?

    The organization has taught contradictory and foolish things. The point of having her read WT literature is to have her see for herself how wrong the Society has been throughout the years.

    You could tell her that these things the WTS itself has said are confusing you. Ask her to help you understand them, and don't accept having her get an elder to discuss it with you. You will trust her because she's your daughter but you don't want to get in a fuss with an elder.

    From this website and others such as www.jwfacts.com, you can find the references to many foolish and contradictory things the organization has put in print. Examples:

    Russell taught that the Great Pyramid was "God's stone witness" and that it verified his dates.

    Rutherford denounced the Great Pyramid as satanic.

    Russell published that World War I was "the Armageddon of the scriptures."

    Rutherford published that we could confidently expect the resurrection of the OT patriarchs in 1925.

    The Finished Mystery teaches that Michael is the Pope and that "leviathan" is the locomotive!

    The list goes on and on.

    Don Cameron's book Captives of a Concept shows lots of the foolish things the WTS was teaching from its beginning down to 1918-1919 when Jesus supposedly made his inspection of all the religions and chose the Watchtower organization to be the faithful and discreet slave. Your daughter probably wouldn't read Don's book, but how about the WT literature he cites or publications that Ray cites in Crisis of Conscience?

    Don't give it all to her at once or she won't be able to handle it. Look through them and pick out the one or two you think will shock her the most.

    If she tells you it's "old light" ask her if the organization was speaking for Jehovah when it printed them. Where were they getting their information?

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    If she's open to it, Crisis of Conscience - definitely not whiny at all. The most shocking thing about the book to me is how much slack Franz actaully cuts these guys.

    I also like the Hassan method mentioned on another thread: ask person to name 3things they like about "the truth," then 3things they don't, and go from there.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I would certainly confirm that "Crisis of Conscience " is not "whiney" or bitter and could not have been written by a more authoritative person that a G B member....

    All the best ...

  • Cirkeline
    Cirkeline

    Wow! Thank you so much!

    Ziddina - Great links ! I have just ordered the book of Susan j Sage: Going undercover to rescue my daughter. That was right on spot, thank you!

    Tornapart - Super! A biblioteque with the org's own litterature from back then. Could be very usefull in future.

    Ding - I did almost mention Russel and his pyramides on the phone, but I kept my tounge (for now). I have'nt read Don Camerons book, its on my list now. She actually pulled that "old light" argument. I will ask that question next time. A good one. Forces her to reflect. Crises on conciense was definetly a book that helped me a lot too. I mentioned the book to her. Also who wrote it. But when I read it, my mind was ready for it. I fear that she maybe read it with a very negative mind. But I will suggest it to her anyway.

    Breakfast of champions and Blues Brother - Yes, totally agree. Not whiny at all. And written by a great authoritative person for sure.

    Tomorrow I'll write her. I will ask her to go to library and borrow "Crises on conscience", and I will add one or two links on the 1914-doctrine. I guess that is enough. I have to be carefull. Dont know how her husbband will react. He's only 21. Just have to hold my breath and hope for the best.

    So happy this web-site is for real!

    Love to you all

  • Ding
    Ding

    I recommend proceeding slowly.

    Understatement usually works best because it keeps the dialogue going.

    If you attack the WTS, they will defend it with WT slogans and no real thought.

    On the other hand, if you are "puzzled" or "unsettled" or "confused" by something, in an effort to help you they are more likely to look at the information and try to come up with a thoughtful reply.

    Be patient.

    They didn't get indoctrinated overnight, and it will take time for them to break free in their thinking.

  • M*A*S*H
    M*A*S*H

    Hi Cirkeline... I truly am sorry to hear about what you're going through.

    I agree with Ding, I think you need to go slow. Too much too soon will put the barriers up.

    It might be worth trying to act subordinate to your daughter, rather than attempting to give her information directly? Does she live close enough to have a bible study with you? You could perhaps say, you've got doubts and need some help; a family study might be just the thing? Perhaps then once your study is established, you could introduce some debate points "you are unclear\worried about", like the 1914, 1925, points etc... and ask her to help you make sense of it?

    Whatever path you take, I hope it works - I expect many in this forum will have their fingers crossed for you.

    Good luck

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