Las Malvinas AKA The Falkland Islands - why the argy-bargy?

by cedars 319 Replies latest members politics

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  Chariklo

  Charliko - Then Tibet has no right to their land and should just cede it to China. The Palestinians should have just shrugged it off about Palestine and settled in Damascus, Amman, and Cairo. An invasion and subsequent occupation does not make this land yours! A duly appointed Argentine governor and Argentine settlers were expelled. Why do you ignore this?

  No, Emilie. Check the real history, not what you have been told. Cedars has it right. you are the victim of your country's own propaganda machine.

  Where on earth is the comparison between Tibet and Argentina? Of course Tibet has the right to Tibet! Who is invading your country? No-one is invading Argentina. The Falkland Islands are not Argentina. They are British!
• 

  Qcmbr

  If Argentina had been smart the following could have happened:

  1 - Argentina seeks closer ties with the UK via trade and invites the Falklands Islands to join an economic union using it as a great commerce resource for accessing Uk and European markets. The British love trade.

  2 - Argentina asks to share defensive responsibilities with the Uk in a treaty ; sharing the Falklands bases and developing them for large aircraft and deep hull ports. The UK - glad of an ally - shares operations. Argentina - a responsible member of the international community proves its worth over decades working closely with the Royal Navy and relieving the British of an expensive but tactically vital role.

  3 - Argentina draws up a treaty recognising the rights of the Falklanders to self determination and offers a standing invitation - should they ever wish it - to be part of Argentina but ensuring that everyone is aware that they will fiercely respect their rights to remain British or whatever they so wish.

  4 - Oil is discovered and Argentina immediately opens up tax breaks to its ally's oil companies. Oil refineries are built on Argentinian soil including a pipeline costing billions. Argentina gets access to international oil expertise and billions of yearly revenues from oil refining.

  5 Argentina gains access to very cheap oil.

  6 Britain and Argentina forge a great friendship based upon mutual trust and shared common concerns. Potentially the Falklanders may one day choose to join Argentina especially since many of their burgeoning population (driven by trade and oil industries) are Argentinian and are great friends. Britain ,no longer a colonial power, is at the forefront of granting people self determination and democracy and will not stand in the way of any of it's former territories choices.

  Compare and contrast what Argentina has achieved so far and is doing now because they are too greedy. The Argentinian administration are pillocks concerning this matter. imo.
• 

  botchtowersociety

  Great post, QCMBR.
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  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  OK, let’s speak about who has the colonial mindset. The ‘Falkland Islands’ are an Overseas territory of the UK. They send no representatives to Parliament, and have a Governor appointed by the Queen. Islas Malvinas are officially part of Provincia de Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sur (Province of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica, and Islands of the South Atlantic) which have their own state government with representatives sent to Buenos Aires. While the Malvinas are an integral part of Argentina according to our constitution, they are officially an “Overseas Territory” in the UK, which is a nice way to call a colony. It is cute to say that “someone once landed there who liked paella”, but the truth of the matter is much deeper than that. Islas Malvinas were a duly constituted territory of Argentina complete with a Governor and Argentine citizens before they were expelled. The land was ours, and a colonial power stepped in and made it theirs. I can’t see how that can be construed as colonial. My point was made that since the British have exercised their “colonial” rights to the “Falklands”, then as Argentines we have an equal right to exercise ours to the Malvinas. If the British constituted a colony there and kept it without interruption since 1765, then you might have a case. But the fact remains that the British abandoned their Port Egmont settlement in 1774 and only returned to expel the Argentines already settled at Puerto Luis in 1833.

  I don’t seek to expel the islanders or destroy their unique culture, and most Argentines agree. What we see are inalienable rights to this territory which were forcibly taken from us. The islanders and the British do not wish to discuss this matter further. I guess we have to live with that. But we refuse to give up our claims and rights to islands which were once ours. You can choose to ignore this, and you seem to have succeeded in doing so. We seek a 21 st century solution to a 19 th century problem. Maybe that is why we have such a huge hill to climb. As always, we desire a discussion of the matter. We realise that this is impossible without the islanders’ consent. It is truly a shame since I think we both would have a lot to offer each other in terms of economic and cultural progress. Now you tell me who has the colonial mindset? The ones who wish to discuss important issues or the ones who ignore them with a “we won, you lost” mentality?
• 

  Diest

  The whole idea of having new settlers come in to see if they can out vote the current islanders is a bit odd. Sounds like something Isreal would do in palestine, which you were just complaining about.
• 

  botchtowersociety

  The ‘Falkland Islands’ are an Overseas territory of the UK.

  http://www.falklands.gov.fk/Government.html

  The Falkland Islands are a United Kingdom Overseas Territory by choice.

  They send no representatives to Parliament, and have a Governor appointed by the Queen.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Falkland_Islands

  The politics of the Falkland Islands takes place in a framework of a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary representative democratic dependency as set out by the constitution, whereby the Governor exercises the duties of head of state in the absence of the monarch and the Chief Executive acts as the head of government, with an elected Legislative Assembly to propose new laws and hold the executive to account.

  The islands, an archipelago in the southern Atlantic Ocean, are a self-governing British overseas territory. Executive power is exercised on behalf of the Queen by an appointed Governor, who primarily acts on the advice of the Executive Council. Legislative power is vested in both the government and the Legislative Assembly. The judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature. The military defence and foreign policy of the islands is the responsibility of the United Kingdom. Politics in the Falkland Islands is minimal as no political parties exist on the islands, and the governmental and legal proceedings very closely resemble British standards.
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  Qcmbr

  You seek no solution except to draw a bit more of the map with your colours. Solutions either are enforced by military might or by diplomatic skill. Neither are Argentinian strengths. One day you may get rid of your sabre rattling politicians and elect some statesmen and women, one day you may have the decency to pay reparations for your war, one day you may apologise for your invasion - I won't hold my breathe - meanwhile you just keep closing your ports and airspace to civilian activity. Pathetic.
• 

  tornapart

  What I can't understand is why the Argentinians would think for one minute that the Falklanders (and I have a friend lives on there) would want to be ruled by them? If Argentinians lived on the island I would understand their reasoning. The fact is that the Falklanders ARE British people. They are the ones who matter in this. The Argentinians want the islands back, they want to rule the people living there. This is totally unacceptable to those people. Would any Argentinian like to be ruled by the British? I very much doubt it.
• 

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  To draw more of the map with our colours? Wasn’t that the entire British colonial policy for 500 years? We’re not seeking a plantation in Zanzibar, nor a sugar cane operation in the West Indies. We are seeking the return of a land which was invaded and taken from us almost 200 years ago. As for the closing of the ports and possible blockade, that is a policy of Fernandez which is designed to solidify international support for our claims. It is petty to be sure. I think we should open our ports to the Malvinas, and encourage a cultural and economic exchange. Unfortunately, any positive action by Argentina today will be met by indifference from the islanders. Thus Argentina is left with two options. Shut our mouths and accept British colonial domination, or raise diplomatic protests and keep the issue on the front pages. Don’t be surprised that we choose the second option.

  When I visited the Malvinas a few years ago, I was struck by the unique culture there. Roofs were painted with Union Jacks, and the sheep flag was in almost equal display. It made me come to the realisation that war is not the answer to this or any other problem. This visit made me become a pacifist. These people have the right to fly this flag. As Argentines, we also realize our unique connection to these islands. As much as we feel these islands are ours, we cannot enforce this on the inhabitants. I doubt they will become Argentine in my lifetime. But I do not support giving up our claim entirely. A new generation will arise which will have no recollection of that horrible war. My only hope is that both our descendants and theirs will come to an equitable solution and join hands in peace and prosperity. It doesn’t offend me that the Union Jack flies above the Malvinas. It does offend me that the Argentine flag does not fly alongside it.

  We’ve had a fruitful discussion on the Malvinas/Falklands dispute. I thank each and every one of you for your contribution. We may have disagreements, but all of you are welcome to my home to have some mate or ‘tea and biscuits’ for some friendly if not heated discussion. Let’s keep the lines of communication open, and become friends. My best wishes to all.

  Emilie

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas!
• 

  Chariklo

  What we see are inalienable rights to this territory which were forcibly taken from us.

  
  
  In what way do you think you have rights and why do you call them inalienable rights? History says otherwise. All anyone needs to do is check the facts. The facts speak for themselves.

  Wasn’t that the entire British colonial policy for 500 years?

  Unfortunately, any positive action by Argentina today will be met by indifference from the islanders. Thus Argentina is left with two options. Shut our mouths and accept British colonial domination, or raise diplomatic protests and keep the issue on the front pages.

  One of the things I find interesting about your posts is your use of the word "colonial" as if it were an insult. It merely describes a historical reality. It is not pejorative. Given that you have already referred to Spain as your Daddy, and that you come from South America which was colonised by Spain, the manner of your use of the word "colonial" is intriguing.

  British attitudes to the Falkands has nothing to do with "colonial domination". They are not a colony, and we do not dominate them. But rest assured, it is with the wholehearted support of the British people that Britain will always protect the Falklands and the British people who live there. It is not based upon the recent war, but on the fact that the islands are very British indeed.