by kendall21 44 Replies latest members private
Welcome to the forum, kendall21
i dont want him to push me away thinking im trying to change him or something.
You got that right. Don't bother telling him anything you read in CoC. His brain is wired differently to yours.
You can ask questions, but making statements that 'attack' his cult will just scare him off.
I say do nothing until you understand what won't work.
Stick around and we'll try and help both of you.
Cheers
Chris
The way it works
1. jw introduce an idea to a person that makes one become interested in it (usually eternal life)
2. one studies with a witness from one of their books using it primarily and backing their idea using the bible(doesn't matter if it's out of context)
3. the student learns he needs to serve Jehovah (bible God) to survive the imminent destruction of the world, and to do this, he will need to be regular at all the meetings, sign up to the ministry school and give talks (what your friend is doing at the moment) and then he has to go door to door preaching
4. after doing all of the above the person is ready for baptism
After baptism, he's in the wts world, and those outside become associates, that's right, you no longer are will be his friend but an associate, a bad association at that. You may have good qualities but you will not help him make it into the new system, only JW are true friends and only ones who will help him make it. You may start seeing less and less of him. The first short while, new recruits usually become hollier than thou which also means they may speak the truth that actually embarrasses most witnesses because the truth is they belief crazy shit and they usually don't say this to outsiders but new recruiters are all hyped up and speak without realizing what they're saying, like - "if you don't become a jw you will die."
One good thing you have going for you, is that he's not a born in and he hopefully had a chance to develop a critical thinking but at the moment he fell for the carrot and isn't thinking straight. You may be able to get to him, but may be difficult as he's in lala land and thinks the end is oh so near. Everything around is a sign that they are in the last days......
What you may want to do is, find a topic you want to talk about. A good one is that Jesus returned in 1914. As him to explain it, and write info down as he's telling you this so he assumes you're impressed or are interested. Make sure he explains to you how they came up with 1914 and who came up with it first. Ask him does 1914 mean anything else to JWs other than Jesus' invisible return?
1914 at present means 4 events have taken place
He may or he may not list them all, but he should explain to you the date was calculated on the basis of 607BC, because Jerusalem's temple was destroyed by Babylonians and then they apply 7 times...blah..blah..blah.. you get 1914. He might
Sounds good, you're impressed and you will check things out and get back to him with what you think. When you get back to him, you should have info disproving all he told you from their own publications and from archeological evidence. We can help you with this if that's the route you decide to approach him.
Again, this may help to wake him up, or not. If his mind is set on becoming a witnesses and will ignore everything you throw at him, there isn't much you can do. What he was probably told already is that because he's associating with the only true Christians others will slander them and will lie about them. In fact they say that Satan will test him by others who will speak against his new found belief and that's one of the signs that Satan uses weaken his faith.
This is what you're going against when you try to reason with someone who is under their "spell." To witnesses, exJW are all liars who misquote, speak half truths and twist their version of the truth. Since he's been studying with them for a while, he's heard this same shit over and over so you have to be careful how you approach his belief system and how you present the facts to him.
One thing, the above is general description of a new convert, he may be totally open minded and willing to listen to reason and get the hell out of there. He may not thought of distrusting them from the start and that may have been the reason for him not to do a research on them so it should be fairly easy to show him the reality BUT these are exceptions regarding progressive studies.
Hope this helps.
KENDALL - Welcome to the board. It's really good you are doing your own outside research on Jehovah's Witnesses to get a more balanced non-biased opinion. And yes, it sounds as if your friend is going full tilt into the Witnesses if he's giving talks in the Ministry school - as they call it. If you have any questions for any of us here- please don't hesitate to ask. We are here for you, O.K. ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
Steven Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control discusses some of the ways cults slowly rewire (alluding to Black Sheep's description) people's thinking. Here are some excerpts about one of the cult tactics he calls phobia indoctrination:
Do you know anyone who has ever had a phobia? Yourself, perhaps? The most common phobias include fears of flying in airplanes, public speaking, taking elevators, driving in tunnels or over bridges, and certain animals like snakes, spiders, and even dogs.
Basically, phobias are an intense fear reaction to someone or something. . . .
What do phobias have to do with cult groups and mind control? In some cults, members are systematically made to be phobic about ever leaving the group. Today's cults know how to effectively implant vivid negative images deep within members' unconscious minds, making it impossible for the member to even conceive of ever being happy and successful outside of the group. . . .
The unconscious mind is made to contain a substantial image-bank of all the bad things that will occur if anyone should ever betray the group. . . .
Of course, these thoughts are irrational and nonsensical. However, keep in mind that most phobias are irrational. Most planes don't crash, most elevators don't get stuck, and most dogs aren't rabid. . . .
- from Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan pp 43-44.
The defensiveness you notice in your friend may be the result of a deeper phobic response that is being deliberately put there by the group.
Welcome, Kendall,,so glad you are a researcher type of person! With Internet, so many can learn the through and through facts about JWs. Good research site it is: jwfacts.com
I am wondering about your friend. Could he have been raised in as a JW? Many youth grow up in it, and do a 'revolving-door life' with it. They have difficulty with it, at least in part, yet have many lingering doubts and self doubts. So some leave for awhile and then go back in for awhile. Is it possible he has JW relatives/family? Some leave it for awhile but have lingering brain thoughts stuck. The 'WTS think' can have deep hooks on especially the youth brain cells. Unless, one starts reading about the facts of JW, their history, and the manipulation forms, many can be 'stuck' that way their whole life.
I hope you are careful with your heart. I don't think anyone can get the JWisms out of a JW, unless that person sees the need to open their own mind.
hey.. thanks everyone so much for your input.. this has really helped
I am going to wait to say anything to him atleast for a bit.. until i can figure this whole thing out more..
i do think he may have been born into it.. im not sure though.. yet..
he definatley went though times of not beliveing in it.. i think.. could someone confirm what the jw belief is of noah's ark and the flood?
at one point he didnt belive it happened.. this was a couple years ago.. and he and his son and i got into a talk about it.. during that talk he was acting more agnostic then anything..
I am curious what you feel would be a "cult" personality because i will say he has a double life in a way... though he has let me see both..
he does continually have fears and thinks the world is coming to an end soon.. and has felt this way the entire time ive known him..
Sorry to hear this. My advice, don't waste your time trying to understand this cult, just read something more productive. Cut your romantic losses and move on. Keep your relationship on a professional level. Sounds like that wouldn't be a problem since you don't see each other in person much.
Find someone else.
JW believe in the flood.
If he was a born-in, you might have harder time reasoning with him because his cult personality may block any attempts. If he was a born in, he was indoctrinated about all the wts BS from youth and at some time he may have felt he wanted to do his own thing and left still believing the nonsense. Maybe something happened in his life, maybe the linked some world event and connected it with the end being near so he returned back to the watchtower fold trying to make it through the end. Since he had fears of the world end all the time you knew him, is a good indication he was a born-in which may be that he was baptized or has not don yet. If this is the case, you might have harder time talking to him because his cult personality will kick in and anything you tell him will just bounce off as if he never heard it. You won't be able to reason with him because the bible says this or that. If you bring up Noah's ark, he can simply say that he didn't have the faith, all myriad other excuses why he didn't believe in the past. As Normad said, it's a waste of your time trying to understand the cult, hoping to help someone who may not appreciate it nor care for reasoning.
Good luck
hey nomad..
in theory.. that sounds like a good thing to do.. but like i said.. we have been so close for so long now.. its just .. idk.. he is my partner.. which was always more then just professional.. i dont want to go into details.. what all we do.. since this is a forum.. but working with him will never be merely professional.. so.. irregardless.. researching is helping me to understand this part of him far better so I want to do that whether we ever have more or not..
I am one of them research types..lol.. so i would just do that no matter what..the things is.. he is too.. thats why i dont get how he could fall for all of it.. except if he was born into it.. i compeltely understand how what influenced you as a child is in there... for ever..
Welcome kendall ! Your last thought could be correct and now he is going back. Some times thing we learn no matter how wrong they are can draw us like a bug to a light.
