My faith in god was essentially gone before I even got here. This site did help me to fill in in a lot of the details of the WTBTS deception and propaganda. And it has really been great to just know there are others like me out there. Thanks to everyone!
Have your faith been made stronger or made weaker since coming here?
by jam 61 Replies latest jw experiences
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Band on the Run
zid,
My journey resembles your down to the abuse and confusing thoughts. Faith in WTBTS-nonexistence before my arrival.
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factfinder
Zid- I am sorry you had such a bad childhood. Parents should never force their children to believe in anything.
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Fernando
May I suggest that all having been born spiritually blind none of us had any FAITH to begin with. The Watchtower stole the FAITH meant for us, redefined it, and gave it back to us as BELIEF. So at worst/best we have lost our BELIEF in the Watchtower - which in my view is a big step UP and FORWARD.
This is not unusual. All religion does this. Just look at the many "statements of FAITH" which then proceed to list BELIEFS.
The two are NOT the same. BELIEF emanates from man. FAITH emanates from God - he alone can and does grant it.
What is FAITH? It is a wide opening of our spiritual eyes which allows us to transcend our 5 senses and see, discern and understand things from another time, place and realm (higher dimensions).
I came to FAITH before coming here to JWN. I do not regret coming here. I have met persons here who have also come to FAITH "independently" of me, my views and my experiences. What we have in common is a metaphysical understanding of the real, full and true gospel (not the apostate Watchtower version).
FAITH is not available to those who don't want it. On the otherhand FAITH is available to ANYONE who does want it, no matter what they have done, where they have gone, who they are, what they possess or not. God's message is "come as you are". The message of Pharisees is "measure up" (which none of us can) - thereby setting us up for the futile pursuit of the unattainable.
No one can continue an honesthearted pursuit of the real, full and true gospel indefinitely without being granted FAITH and spiritual vision.
The real, full and true gospel oddly enough exits in the Watchtower library (in a badly fragmented form), but definitely not in the hearts, and not on the lips of Watchtower (or any) religionists.
Only for those that want FAITH (and spirituality) here is a simple suggested recipe for recovering what the Watchtower has stolen and kept from us (Rom 10:16,17):
- Pray for strength and endurance to pursue to real, full and true gospel to its zenith or ultimate.
- Find and underline the word "gospel" or phrase "good news" in your Bible. It occurs ±152 times - not just once (in Matt 24:14) as per the Watchtower. The Watchtower library search tool is excellent for this as is www.bible.cc and www.biblegateway.com or a downloaded Bible.
- Start reading where you have underlined in the books Romans through Hebrews. This is the "good news" according to Paul - which you will recall is not taught, believed, or practiced by Watchtower followers. More than half the Bible's references to the "good news" are by Paul!
Lastly by continuing to accept and use FALSE Watchtower definitions of key concepts such as FAITH, spirituality, prophesy, apostasy and the gospel, we afford the apostate Watchtower indefinite or perpetual influence in and control over our lives and families.
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Paulapollos
Jam,
You said, "The realization that this is it, no flying around in heaven, no resurrection and seeing love ones from the past, no living forever in paradise. This life , that,s it. The predicament, trying hard to beleive again in order to have hope. This site open my eyes, and once you have seen it,s very hard to go back into the darkness. Faith just don,t do it for me."
Think about what you are saying, my friend. "The realization that this is it". Yes, this is it. This is what we have. This astonishing, miraculous planet, with its breathtaking variety of life. This globe, teeming with the consequences of billions of years of evolution. No directing force, no ultimate goal, except to survive and thrive - and yet, here you and I are, having a "conversation" about the "meaning" of life. Can you not see how breathtaking just those two concepts (self-awareness and exploration of meaning) actually are? Life survived at least five major extinctions in the history of our planet, and here you and I are, to have this conversation. What could be more mind-boggling than that?
"no flying around in heaven". Jam, we are flying in heaven. We are rapidly expanding our understanding of the cosmos. Every month, every day it seems, our greatest minds are making further progress on the nature and origin of the real heavens, with verifiable facts. We are learning at an exponential rate - despite what the naysayers say. From quantum physics to the philosophical questions of whether there are indeed really "laws" governing the Universe, we are exploring the objective measurable reality out there, and here on Earth. Jam, we arebecoming like the "gods" of old, except that we are real.
"no resurrection and seeing love[d] ones from the past". Now this, I understand. But I ask you Jam, what does this really say to us? Surely it is this - if we have loved and lost, then for God's sake, love those who are in your lifebefore they are snatched away. Love them fully, give them all you can. The brevity of our existence demands it. Related to that is "no living forever in paradise." You're right, unless longevity research takes a leap, you and I will not live forever. Nor will we see "paradise". So, surely, the answer is to make the best world you can now, for yourself, for those you love, and for others. We may not be able to create a paradise. But we can make the world a little fairer, a little more advanced, a little more open and understanding, a little more honest. We can do that for the people in our lives. That is real, that has meaning.
"trying hard to beleive again, in order to have hope." Jam, let me ask you something. Do you accept what many scientists say, that in around 4 billion years or so, the Sun will expand and consume Earth? By then, our species will have either died already, or will die, during the changing climatic conditions or various other factors. Unless we have, by then, gained the power to control the very solar system, or have migrated, intelligent life on this planet will END in 4 billion years.
Let me ask you - in view of that, does that make everything meaningless, hopeless? Does love, justice, kindness, friendship still matter? It is all going to be consumed. No-one will look back, and remember it. It will not last forever. It will vanish, like everything ultimately does. And yet, would you still help an african aids child, right now, if you could? Would you help feed a poor person, if you could? Would you help to discover a cure for cancer, if you could? Would you? Of course you would. Because things don't have to last forever to have meaning, to be important. Because you don't need fairytales to have hope. Because you don't need to live forever to make this world better. Because you don't need God to have meaning, my friend.
Look around you. What we have, imperfect as it is, horrible and unjust as it can be, is still astonishing. Appreciate reality, spend your life actually advancing our species to the best of your ability - that, my friend, actually means something, and is far more real than the invented fables of superstitious, power-hungry, misogynistic, totalitarian priests from 3000years ago. When you actually think about it, you're already halfway to freedom, Jam - you said it yourself. "Faith just don't do it for me." And that is the way it should be. You don't need faith. Just open your eyes and embrace reality, my friend. There is nothing to be scared of out here.
PP
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Paulapollos
Zid,
I wish I'd had your mind at 7.
PP
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finallysomepride
I'm with zid
What faith???? LOL
lost any faith in God looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time b4 coming here
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Knowsnothing
May I suggest that all having been born spiritually blind none of us had any FAITH to begin with. -Fernando
Isn't it said we are all born atheists and only then, through our upbringing and cultural factors, become believers?
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tec
The two are NOT the same. BELIEF emanates from man. FAITH emanates from God - he alone can and does grant it.
Well put. Very well put.
I enjoyed your post.
Keeping in line with the above definitions, my belief has remained roughly the same as it was when I came here. Some ups/some downs. Joy at having found some brothers and sisters in Christ. But my faith has grown... not from this site; but granted to me from Christ and God.
Jam, the bible being inerrant or not never really mattered to me. I was never told that it had to be one way or the other way, so I never had that forced upon me, so that my faith was in it.
Peace to you,
Tammy
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jam
Paulapollos: Eloquently stated. Yes, A lot to think about.
Thanks.