Is this world ruled by Demons and are we?

by Mindchild 68 Replies latest jw friends

Abaddon

I do like you Abaddon.
I have no opinion of you in that regard at this time, in fact no opinion of you at all other than on your tendancy to believe unsubstansiated rumour, but that wouldn't stop me liking you if I liked you as a person.
I do love to... catch ya.... Hahahahahaha…
Try getting up a geological era earlier... Hahahahahahaha
If I'm not mistaken, you do believe in... an evolution. Right?
An evolution of what... oh, evolution, yes, yes, get on with your point...
I want to see one piece of evidence of it!
Okay, here's some observed instances of speciation (one species developing into another, sometimes called microevolution);
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
And here's some more;
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html
And here's information about the transitional (fossils that show signs of say, reptilain AND amphibian features, sometimes called macroevolution) that creationists say don't exist;
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
And some more information about transitional fossils;
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
There is plenty more, and not just at the one website I quote above. Universities, Museums, Libraries, Bookshops. Loads of evidence that point toward an evolutionary origin.
I want to make own experiment and create life as well, as evolution can.
Any idea how to do it and... prove it?
And (from later in your post);
I want PROOF, HARD SOLID EVIDENCE! You are good at it!!!! I trust you on that one
Anyone has created life? Single cell? Single organism?
Please define 'create life'. I can do that having sex with my girlfriend. I assume the same option (whether you are a boy or girl) is open to you and that you have some other definiton in mind.
Bear in mind experimental times for experiments involving generating life from organic molecules would be rather large, and do involve some speculation as to exact conditions.
Please realise that not being able to create life in a test-tube is not a proof that it cannot be done, or that evolution as a general theory of origin is wrong, for the following reasons;
1/ Required timescale of experiments; no one is saying life is being created everyday, so not being able to do it is no surprise.
2/ Exact conditions are uncertain at this time
3/ We are here, so life must have come into being somehow
4/ We can find no evidence for any other origin other than that which is explained by the theory of evolution
Thus your.... attempt... to 'catch me' fails;
1/ You fail to prove something which you say is happening right now
2/ This is despite being fairly certain of the circumstance it happens under.
3/ Aliens are not here (as in plain view), so their existance must be proved rather than assumed.
4/ You have no evidence, and you cannot show what you say is true by arranged demonstration (just like the demon believers).
I cannot make life in a test-tube, but can produce large buildings in most countries in the world that contain room after room, shelf after shelf of evidence that fits in with the general theory of evolution; obviously there is dispute and refinement of detail, but evolution is a new science, and this is understandable.
For example, last week they announced the discovery of the genetic switch which lead to insects developing forms where not ever segment has legs (like flies) from forms where every segment had legs (like centipedes), WITH EXPERIMENTAL PROOF.
Thus you try to compare chall and cheese, and make a mess of the blackboard and leave a bad taste in your mouth.
Oh, and don't try the 'UFOolgy is a new science thing'; it's not a science, it hasn't got any facts (other than UFOologists have no evidence).
I do find it funny you immediately seek to attack my beliefs rather than defending the facts you presented. Oh. You didn't have any.
You seems to know a lot about scientific evidences:
No more than anyone with three years at University doing sciences and an avid life-long interest in science. I'm exactly average for someone like that.
You quote my suggested experiment and respond with;
I would not accept any explanation kind of: so many scientists are accepting is.
I assume English is not your native language, as your grammar is a bit off (although you do better than I could in Dutch, which I am learning), but I think I understand you to mean;
'I wouldn't accept that (what light the plant absorbs most of) as an explaination; many scientists are too accepting of things like this'
Please correct me if I have misunderstood you.
All I can say is you have NO IDEA of scientific methodology. So, if the plant under the green light grows the least, and the plants under the blue and red light grow more, the blue (normally) slightly more than the red, what is your explaintion, other than plants (more specifically chlorophyll) absorb more red and blue light than green light? Does it involve demons, faries or aliens? Remember, the experiment is designed with a control, and with all other factors equalized, and is repeated lots, thus meaning ANY difference has to be in the factors you are deliberately manipulating.
No comments about links supplied? These 400 witnesses are... rubbish?
It's a website. It could be entirely made up. It could be partially made up. They're making money off it to give more details than are there now. What is your native language's word for SUCKER?
It is not proof. It's like me putting up a web page where I say "400 people say that Mr. Bean talks through his hat", quoting two (without any external evidence as to their bona fides), and asking for money to show you anything else, and then using that as 'proof' that you talk through your hat.
Proof of something like aliens could consist of;
1/ High definition photos or video... but that's getting less 'proof' every year as digital manipulation gets more advanced
2/ Live aliens
3/ Dead aliens
4/ Bits of dead aliens
5/ Alien technology
6/ Transmissions originating outside our solar system
7/ Human technology using obvious alien artifacts
8/ Substansiatable documents
9/ George W. Bush eating a live rat on TV, and then pulling a latex face mask off
... and similar things.
You have NONE of that, which is why I think you are credulous. Doesn't make you a bad person, just a credulous one.
You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. Your opinion is there are aliens here now. Big deal. The facts do not support your opinion.
When you have something approaching evidence, come back and play some more.
People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
SEAKEN2001

Mindchild,
you started this thread to provide some entertainment, right?
I'd like to laugh if it wasn't so pitiful. As my Dad often says, you can't prove anything to someone who will not be swayed in spite of the proof. There is no way you are going to get these guys to be objective. They want to believe and will do so no matter what. I am getting better at dealing with that mindset and no longer get upset at such weak attempts at thinking. But I still have a hard time viewing it all as a mere fascination, perhaps even entertainment. Maybe in time.
Sean
2SYN

Shot for the links, Abbadon! I speak Afrikaans, which is a language that evolved from Dutch, and I know that it's radically different from English, so good luck there.
Wow, this evolution site is amazing...nice and detailed.
I, too, would like to see objective scientific evidence of 'demons', and of course, 'Satan', 'UFOs', and 'spirits'. Until this happens, I won't lose any sleep over them.
YouKnow: I find that the experiences of people who are on acid are highly questionable at best, and complete balderdash at worst...why did you have to mention that? Your interesting (although credulous) argument lost all credibility as soon as I read that sentence. Sigh. You'll never learn...
The earlier in the forenoon you take the sun bath, the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing. - The Golden Age
OUTLAW

You Know having expierences with demons on LSD.(LOL)With some people its a circus monkey with a drum,I choked laughing at that one too...OUTLAW
Mindchild

Sean asked me:
Mindchild,you started this thread to provide some entertainment, right?
...damn busted again!
I'm fully aware of the near impossibility of actually "reasoning" with someone who is locked into a conceptual reality, such as You Know. It does get boring in here at times though and I like to provoke a good conversation now and then and keep You Know and others busy typing away trying to prove the unprovable.
On the bright side though, it is good to have their circular logic and looping reality tunnel exposed for everyone to see. I doubt if anyone will change their paradigms from what they read in this thread but maybe it will help someone already trying to get out of the mental quicksand.
Skipper
Mr Bean

Ummm… where should I start?
Somehow I do feel like I’m conversing with hard core stubborn dubs. What is different? The subject of discussion. Mentality is still the same. ;-P
Maybe you guys should stay as dubs?
Firstly. I never said that aliens, demons and many other things are proven beyond any doubts facts. My English is not the best <g> but… I rarely have problems with any other
People, unless they are… JW’s or…XJW.
Somehow some XJW’s are behaving exactly the same way!
You are asking me for evidences for a mere possibility of existence of things.
Maybe you want evidence that there is not life in whole universe?
If I can’t deliver it, than for sure there is not a life in other planets. ;-P
It’s like someone looking outside his small home and said,…’ there is not one in this city because I CAN’T see it!’
I have said MANY times before and I'll say it again.
I'M INCLINE TO BELIEVE, or rather, I WOULD NOT EXCLUDE SUCH POSSIBILITIY.
I do consider such possibilities.
About NWO I know since famous Lima Declaration, made in1974.
Right than no one has believed that NOW was possible. People who were talking about these things were called spooks, mad conspirators etc.
Today some smarter ones are waking up. I’m not going to supply any evidences of NWO.
I don’t care you believe it or not. If you are interested, type NOW, or Bilderberg or… look closely on your one dollar bill and read everything from it.
I'm not a kook, spook, alien believer, worshiper or admirer of aliens
(demons)!
Look who is talking? You are so smart now, where you were before you started your
Bible study? Did you ask for hard solid evidences?
Now you are smart?
You are just making the same mistake.
When you have ‘studied’ WTS’ crap, you’ve excluded other side of the coin.
To believe in ET's, UFO's ESP, etc, is much more reasonable than to believe
in WTS' crap.
It is easier to prove aliens than… WTS’ inspirations!
The basic reason is, all evidences are against WTS. Regards aliens, there
are utterly millions of pieces (95% of them would be illusions or fakes, but
5% still do remains.) and they are showing some not to sharp picture but...
it is some picture, which do have some regular details and contours and IMHO
cannot be discarded as total illusion or fake.
WTS, to the contrary has another picture, painted with hundreds of details,
picture of the failure, cheat, dishonesty and scriptural demagogy.
Having such picture on display, what kind of person do believe that such
monster (WTS) was or is directed by God????? God???? He has right to
exists but... demons (aliens) don't have such privilege!?
How many of you, do still believe in WTS or did believed? How many went into
totally opposite direction and now deny the same way they were supporting
WTS?
At least I do believe that I'm still honest. I have made very stupid
mistake.
Yes! IT WAS STUPID MISTAKE. I’ve made it and those of you, who were dubs
were as stupid as I was! It needs a bit honesty to admit own mistake.
It costs me 20 years of my life. My most of precious time wasted with
WTS. Because my urge to pursue the meaning of life I have made a huge mistake as
a young lad and landed in the cult.
Now I'm ashamed myself. People still are looking at me with that funny look
I always had as JW and most of you know well.
But... I'm still searching and... I'm open to ANY ideas, aliens are not
excluded.
It funny that JW can call someone a whack because basically he may do
believe in demons or aliens (demons).
Peace…
Abaddon

2SYN; From what an xGF told me, there's no gender (like in English), and the grammatic structure is simplified, being somewhere between Dutch and English, thus the similie. It is Dutch, evolved, with certain simplification adopted that are similar to those that English uses. But, you speak it and English, so I think you probably know better than I. Last time I listen to a SOuth African woman!
Mr. Bean; Ah, you must have a good point, you start on the Ad Hom's straght away;
Ummm where should I start?
Somehow I do feel like I’m conversing with hard core stubborn dubs. What is different? The subject of discussion. Mentality is still the same. ;-P
Maybe you guys should stay as dubs?
Tongue-in-cheek, sarcasm, trolling? DOn;t particulary care which... get on with the discussion at hand. Just throwing insults (no problem with a few here and there) makes it look like you cannot respond in a reasonable fashion!
Firstly. I never said that aliens, demons and many other things are proven beyond any doubts facts. My English is not the best <g> but I rarely have problems with any other
People, unless they are JW’s or XJW.
Ah, that's easy; JW's don't believe anything other than that which they are told to believe, so attempting to engage them in conversation about anything which challenges this is difficult.
Some xJW's don't believe in anything unless it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Entirely reasonable, IMHO. Sorry if not engaging in your unsupported flights of fancy according to your rules ("well, you never know, it might be true") is upsetting to you.
Somehow some XJW’s are behaving exactly the same way!
More Ad Hom; tedious!!
You are asking me for evidences for a mere possibility of existence of things.
Oh, maybe you misunderstand. I don't believe in Santa, god, the Easter Bunny, Demons, Angels, Faeries, Elves, Gnomes, Pixies, or in the flood, Sasquatch, Nessie, aliens interacting with human beings, or in honest politicians, free lunches, cold fusion, or anything that cannot be proved beyond a resonable doubt.
If someone can prove something beyond reasonable doubt, I'll believe in it. Some of the above are not beyond the bounds of possibility, but as they haven't been proved, why the fuck should I believe in them?
This is what is called 'open-minded', as in willing to accept things if they are proveable. but refusing to believe in things that can't be proved. Note that there is a difference between being open-minded and being so open minded your brain falls out, and a difference between being open-minded and declaring that things you don't believe in could not exist ever.
Maybe you want evidence that there is not life in whole universe?
If I can’t deliver it, than for sure there is not a life in other planets. ;-P
It’s like someone looking outside his small home and said,…’ there is not one in this city because I CAN’T see it!’
But we haven't been to all the other planets, so ALL we can do is make educated guesses, which would indicate that there probably is life elsewhere in the Universe. We have been to earth, and saying that aliens are here now WHEN THERE IS NO EVIDENCE is different from accepting there may be life on other planets. One is accepting something as true without facts. The other is conceeding a possibility due to lack of facts, and there is a big difference.
I have said MANY times before and I'll say it again.
I'M INCLINE TO BELIEVE, or rather, I WOULD NOT EXCLUDE SUCH POSSIBILITIY.
I do consider such possibilities.
No, be honest. You like, or are inclined to believe in possibilities. I like or am inclined to pull the ings off badly thought out arguements asserting that things which cannot be proved are facts.

About NWO I know since famous Lima Declaration, made in1974.
Right than no one has believed that NOW was possible. People who were talking about these things were called spooks, mad conspirators etc.
Today some smarter ones are waking up. I’m not going to supply any evidences of NWO.
I don’t care you believe it or not. If you are interested, type NOW, or Bilderberg or… look closely on your one dollar bill and read everything from it.
I'm not a kook, spook, alien believer, worshiper or admirer of aliens
(demons)!
Yup, the conspiracy, new world order, whatever; not one shred of evidence that would stand up in a court of law EVER; and if there is such a thing, how come there is no bar on discussion in the media; no wiping out of people asserting that it is true, no blocking or jamming of web sites asserting that it is true. Oh, maybe YOU work for them, and by making it look like you are a kook who is believing in things there is no proof of, you discredit the conspiracy theorists who ARE real. That's it! You are part of the NWO!!! I should have known!!
In the next bit you get offensive, which is what fantasiests do when people rip up their slender belief structure.
Look who is talking? You are so smart now, where you were before you started your
Bible study? Did you ask for hard solid evidences?
I was born in you unmitigated ass. Take the words 'high control group' and choke on them.
Now you are smart?
That's for other people to decide, just as people are deciding what sort of person you are.
You are just making the same mistake.
When you have ‘studied’ WTS’ crap, you’ve excluded other side of the coin.
To believe in ET's, UFO's ESP, etc, is much more reasonable than to believe
in WTS' crap.
It is easier to prove aliens than… WTS’ inspirations!
You haven't proved ANYTHING, so you can't even state "It is easier to prove aliens than WTS’ inspirations!", as it is untrue... both your gibberish and the WTBTS gibberish have an equal amount of proof; NONE.
The basic reason is, all evidences are against WTS. Regards aliens, there
are utterly millions of pieces (95% of them would be illusions or fakes, but
5% still do remains.) and they are showing some not to sharp picture but...
it is some picture, which do have some regular details and contours and IMHO
cannot be discarded as total illusion or fake.
WTS, to the contrary has another picture, painted with hundreds of details,
picture of the failure, cheat, dishonesty and scriptural demagogy.
Having such picture on display, what kind of person do believe that such
monster (WTS) was or is directed by God????? God???? He has right to
exists but... demons (aliens) don't have such privilege!?
I bet at least 5% of what the WTBTS publish is true and provable; none of the prohecy, or the bits about god, but I guarantee I could prove more that 5% of a Watchtower or Awake! was factual. Example; World War I ended in 1919; a fact! Verifiable. True.
You declare 5% of the evidence for aliens is true, but, as per normal PROVE NOTHING. Bit like 1975?
How many of you, do still believe in WTS or did believed? How many went into
totally opposite direction and now deny the same way they were supporting
WTS?
Yes! IT WAS STUPID MISTAKE. I’ve made it and those of you, who were dubs
were as stupid as I was! It needs a bit honesty to admit own mistake.

You really don't get it. Those bought up in the Borg often didn't develop a critical thinking ability. Those caught by the Borg either didn't have it or had it supressed. People leaving the Borg fall into two groups; those who develop a critical thinking ability, and those who do not.
Those who have it are skeptical.
Those who don't have it are credulous.
It is VERY simple.
I suggest you read up on the topic.
At least I do believe that I'm still honest. I have made very stupid
mistake.

It costs me 20 years of my life. My most of precious time wasted with
WTS. Because my urge to pursue the meaning of life I have made a huge mistake as
a young lad and landed in the cult.
Now I'm ashamed myself. People still are looking at me with that funny look
I always had as JW and most of you know well.
But... I'm still searching and... I'm open to ANY ideas, aliens are not
excluded.

It funny that JW can call someone a whack because basically he may do
believe in demons or aliens (demons).

Peace
No one has doubted your honesty, or criticised you for making a mistake by being a JW in the past; we've all been there.
But I hope I've shown that while I don't exclude the possibility of certain things, that doesn't mean I believe in things without proof. There is a gap between the two you knoe.
You have defended your right to believe in what you like, when this was never really in doubt. What you have not addressed is the gaping holes of verifiability in what you believe that should be addressable if these things were fact. As such, some of the things you believe are unsubstansiated opinion, and you'll just have to put up with them being regarded as such.

People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
Mr Bean

But I hope I've shown that while I don't exclude the possibility of certain things, that doesn't mean I believe in things without proof. There is a gap between the two you knoe.
How many time I have to repeat that I do not believe and I do not exclude a possibility. you didn't read it carefully. Read again until you will grasp it!
You have defended your right to believe in what you like, when this was never really in doubt. What you have not addressed is the gaping holes of verifiability in what you believe that should be addressable if these things were fact. As such, some of the things you believe are unsubstansiated opinion, and you'll just have to put up with them being regarded as such.
Try this link for a start.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1575000/1575501.stm
Try this as well and every link related to it.
http://educate-yourself.org/freeenergyindex.html
People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
You are thinking that you got from spiritual
crap into wonderful world so badly demonized by WTS. Unfortunately, the world is much more uglier that WTS is trying to show. Because.... WTS has no access to sensitive materials as we do, and also, they are big heroes when comes to die for the truth. I mean when R&F JW have to die. They would not take a risk themselves and they would not trust Jehovah for His protection if they would write something, governments do not like it!
You are, Abaddon and Mindchild who are ....living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones..."
World is much worse than WTS is telling us. Governments are seldom telling truth at all. We are under strict mind control. We do have wonderful technology which is carefully hidden from the public.
The world has fought 2 terrible world wars (one nuclear as well) for the money and they will fight more ad more.
Money, oil and power are most important in this world. And... we do not need any oil. We do have limitless sources of energy. We could have a paradise on Earth if these people who are running the show would care just a little about human family.
You wonder where evidence is. Find yourself! They don't want you to have ANY evidences and it is a conspiracy against any conspiracies.
Life in you glass world or... put your head into sand. Be careful.
One day it could be a concrete instead. You could break you neck!
Cheers...
NeonMadman

You Know:
The case with demons and used objects, is that they latch onto certain objects so that when that thing is passed to another the unclean creature sort of tags along because they view it as belonging to them. They can attach themselves to certain people too. It's just a game they like to play because, apparently, there are certain boundaries that they can't cross over with out hitchhiking on these physical or human objects.
I defy you to support that statement from the scriptures. There is only one religion besides Jehovah's Witnesses that I know of that teaches that demons "attach" themselves to physical objects, and that is the religion of voodoo. The concept is utterly pagan and completely non-scriptural, and the Watchtower has adopted this paganism into its dogma for the sole purpose of keeping its subjects in fear of questioning Watchtower teachings, or in any way breaking the "rules".
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

Is this world ruled by Demons and are we?

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