Is this world ruled by Demons and are we?

by Mindchild 68 Replies latest jw friends

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  TMS

  Mindchild,

  This is perhaps not the appropriate thread for my observations since you've included a couple of additional components that limit the topic. I did find this observation by You Know somewhat interesting:

  Anyway, here’s what I would suggest: Since you don’t accept God’s or Christ’s word for it, why don’t you look up someone who is an occultist and interview them on the subject and see what they tell you? I am not suggesting at all to read or practice occultism, because I know it can be extremely dangerous, but, if you really want to investigate this thing, go act as an investigative reporter and go talk to some people who KNOW that the demons are real. They may be able to enlighten you where all others have failed.

  You Know makes an additional observation that I believe to be true for many JW's:

  When I began studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses I still kept dabbling with LSD and my little visitors became very disturbed. They threatened me with death on numerous occasions if I didn’t stop my association with Jehovah’s Witnesses. So, that only reinforced my conviction that Jehovah’s Witnesses had the truth, relatively speaking

  I agree with YK in this respect, that since Jehovah and angels do not reveal themselves to humans, any evidence that wicked spirits exist is perhaps as powerful a reinforcement of the JW belief system as anything.

  TMS
• 

  cellomould

  Hi You Know,

  You pointed out the crux of the discussion here:

  The demons don't control the world through individuals. The way the Bible describes it, their malevolent spirit simply permeates society as a whole----like the air that surrounds us. Because they have exerted their influence over successive generations they are able to control society through the philosophical underpinnings of various institutions and organizations that have been established for centuries in some cases.

  So what do you really think about this?

  Do you think it's really possible to control society without controlling individual minds?

  The only alternative to controlling individuals' minds, and thus their actions is this: if they could control time itself, causing certain events to align.

  That is a bit of a reach though, as I think you will agree.

  I gave this subject a lot of thought, and realized it is impossible to control society without controlling individual behavior.

  For example, if the demons influence society's taste in movies and entertainment... it must boil down to decisions that individual's make. If another movie glorifying the occult is about to be released, this is because: (1) People have consistently chosen to watch such movies. This amounts to individual choice, no more (2) A director, producer, writer etc, group of people recognize trends in popularity and choose to make a movie about the occult.

  So in looking at this example, where we agree individals' choices are exercised, can we extrapolate backward?

  Try it... go backward in time, following patterns to their roots. You will see that always you end at an individual. In other words, there is nothing to control besides individuals' thoughts and behaviors.

  And the demons aren't supposed to be able to do this. (? - or so says the WT) So either: (1) the demons can control you mind and mine, or (2) something else is responsible, and there are no demons.

  From a lot of reasoning and reading I have done, I put my stock in (2).

  cellomould

  

  "In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ
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  You Know

  Do you think it's really possible to control society without controlling individual minds?

  You've got it turned around backwards. Individuals are controlled by society. What I meant is that the demons don't have to control each individual personally for the simple reason that the person is already subjected to demonic thinking through the system. So it's not necessary to control each cow if you steer the herd, because of the so-called herd mentality.

  For example, if the demons influence society's taste in movies and entertainment... it must boil down to decisions that individual's make.

  Precisely. That's how we protect ourselves from demonic influence by being no part of Satan's world. At least we limit our exposure to his insideous influence by avoiding things that are evil. That's why the Watchtower is always harping on those things.

  In other words, there is nothing to control besides individuals' thoughts and behaviors. And the demons aren't supposed to be able to do this. (? - or so says the WT)

  ROFL / You Know
• 

  HappyHeathen

  You Know,

  David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Are you aware that schizophrenics hear voices because the addled chemicals in their brains send them on mind trips similar to LSD trips? But if you want to believe it's demons, go right ahead.

  HH
• 

  larc

  You Know,

  Since Satan and the demons control the whole world, why would they spend extra time on people like Jeffrey Dahmer and the Son of Sam, when they should be spending their time going after God's choosen people. It appears that their priorities are mixed up.

  Now, do you really believe that the demons, get into objects like old sofas, that you can buy at Goodwill? Are they really that weak, when they are controlling the world????
• 

  larc

  You Know,

  What kind of shit are you laying on us? You wrote about what you did before you were a Witness. The fact is, that your parents are Witnesses who are well connected with Bethel, so don't give us this crap.
• 

  cellomould

  You Know,

  You are right here in a way:

  So it's not necessary to control each cow if you steer the herd, because of the so-called herd mentality.

  But you must control at least one cow. That is the point I am making. One cow sees you making signals or feels your lash on his back... then the others simply follow.

  You can't control any cows much less a whole herd if none of them can see you.

  Another good example is in a flock of birds. It seems almost magical that they fly in such organized formations and follow without hesitation the smallest change in direction. However, this is not magic.

  The V-formation actually helps the rear birds expend less energy. What they are doing is staying in the wake of the bird or birds in front of them. And they are very, very efficient at that!

  This is a very good example of social evolution, but I digress...

  cellomould

  

  "In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ
• 

  You Know

  David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Are you aware that schizophrenics hear voices because the addled chemicals in their brains send them on mind trips similar to LSD trips?

  Yes, or course. What you must understand about the demons is that they are opportunistic. They are like animals that instinctively go after the weaker and most vulnerable prey. So because we are electro-chemical organisms, the demons naturally look for pathways into our minds through those means. So while schizophrenia is an organic disease that can be treated, it is also quite likely that the demons ply their mischef on the poor unfortunate individual just to add to their misery and confusion. Plus, too, it always gives the demons a deniability clause, so that when skeptical people here stories of people with schizophrenia hearing voices or people on drugs conversing with demons, unless they have had the experience, they are inclined to dismiss it as being a drug-induced halucination and nothing more. And because doctors have been trained in a system that denies the existence of demons the "experts" always attribute such things to mental abarrations. Interestingly, though, in primative socities medicine men would be inclined to recognize that evil spirits were the root of a person's mental illness. But, in those instances the witch doctors prescribed medicine only brings the victim more completely under the demon's control. / You Know
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  You Know

  Since Satan and the demons control the whole world, why would they spend extra time on people like Jeffrey Dahmer and the Son of Sam, when they should be spending their time going after God's choosen people. It appears that their priorities are mixed up.

  It's easy to see why you were such easy prey for the demons with this apostasy thing! You don't know the enemy at all. Like Mick Jagger sang about in his little ode to Satan in Sympathy for the Devil: "But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game." Jesus indicated that, just like people, demons have differnet personalities. He once referred to seven demons who were more evil then another unclean spirit. So, some demons are extremely vicious and ferocious and apparently enjoy watching humans get gutted and tortured and canabalized and what not, while others of the demonic hoarde are more laid back and probably regret that they ever got mixed up with Satan in the first place. / You Know
• 

  You Know

  LARK says:

  You wrote about what you did before you were a Witness. The fact is, that your parents are Witnesses who are well connected with Bethel, so don't give us this crap.

  That's the first I've heard of it. Where do you get that? Have you been hearing voices? / You Know