"Freeing" those "trapped" in the Organization.

by curiouscynic 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  curiouscynic

  I have family members who are still JWs, many of you do as well. Assuming your folks are similar to mine, they are, for the most part, rational. They are JWs because they believe and they have a tremendous amount of scriptural knowledge, albeit of WTS origins and with the expected bias.

  If I chose to demonstrate, to my father particularly, the inconsistencies in WTS ideology... he might just decide to leave. During talks that he and I have had along those lines, he essentially said that he didn't WANT to know. He said that this [JW life] is what he's done his entire life and he didn't know what sort of person he'd be without it. In a nutshell, he WANTS to be a JW and would prefer to ignore evidence that disproves WTS theory.

  My question[s] to the group...

  Do you attempt to "free" your loved ones from the destructive WTS cult by any means necessary? Or is it appropriate to acknowledge that they have the right to make their OWN decision [mind control notwithstanding]?
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  OnTheWayOut

  

  This is a big can of worms. You will get varied answers.
  Mine is: Every last JW deserves the real truth. If they will listen, they deserve to know about the problems and lies. I don't care if they are in their 90's, they deserve to know. But I get that they don't want to know. "Any means necessary" ? NO. Is it appropriate to acknowledge that they have the right to make their OWN decision [mind control notwithstanding]? That's a difficult question. Does a drug addict make proper decisions concerning the drug he's addicted to? NO.

  But a drug addict has to want to get off the drugs. And with JW's, you cannot just kidnap them and prevent them from going to the Kingdom Hall. It probably would just feed their persecution complex anyway.

  You have a bunch of homework to do. Mad Sweeney has a recent interview with Steve Hassan. (Search for him on this forum or on youtube.) Steve Hassan is a cult expert. In that interview, Steve said that maybe we are too close to our relatives to really be the ones to free them, plus they already know we have problems with Watchtower. Anyway, give it a listen. Also consider reading both of Steve Hassan's books: COMBATTING CULT MIND CONTROL and RELEASING THE BONDS; EMPOWERING PEOPLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

  Getting a JW out is a long-haul process if it will ever work at all. There are exceptions. But some will not come out ever. Some of what you might learn is that going to the doctrine won't work on your family or that it will work. Iwould guess that, like my family, yours won't listen to facts about the doctrine. All that's left after that is general principles about getting them to think for themselves as Steve Hassan's second book will help you do. That, and maybe they will get burned or see people get burned by WTS.

  Others might say that everyone is entitled to make their own decisions. I will say that would be fine if the average JW had their decisions without looking it up in the literature.
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  sizemik

  Do you attempt to "free" your loved ones from the destructive WTS cult by any means necessary? Or is it appropriate to acknowledge that they have the right to make their OWN decision [mind control notwithstanding]?

  That's a false dichotomy . . .

  It's the mind control side of it you need to understand fully, and that there is a difference between being left to make a decision and making an informed choice. The best way to discern what's appropriate for you . . . is to ask yourself if you'd be happy to live a life of deception . . . or would prefer somebody made the effort to alert you.

  The other option . . . to free them by any means necessary, is not what I would choose either.

  Each situation is unique . . . but there are some definite do's and don'ts. A good knowledge of cult practices and mindset is essential . . . as is the proper approach. That requires getting schooled up and doing some research.

  "Any means necessary" is not even in the equation . . . you usually get one shot and there's definitely no guarantees.
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  Black Sheep

  If they are actively recruiting for a high control cult, then they are asking for the freedom to damage other family's lives, so it's not just about them
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  curiouscynic

  There is obviously no right or wrong answer, "varied" is what I'm interested in. I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are.

  Interesting point, Black Sheep. I've just never really thought of them [converts, recruitees] as victims before. It seems to me, fairly obvious what you're getting yourself into. But I've seen many say that's not how it was for them, so...
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  Black Sheep

  But I've seen many say that's not how it was for them, so...

  So .... those ones were not deceived???
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  wheres caleb?

  Have you ever heard someone say that you shouldn't run ahead of the organization? That's control.

  Anyone guilting you into going to all the mundane meetings and knocking on doors every weekend? That's control. They would call it a command from the scriptures. What Jesus wanted and what JWs guilt others into are two different things.

  I challenged a CO on that and he realized he was wrong. That's my point. The Society does not intentionally lie, they just write narrative. Narrative allows you to sustain CONTROL. They are true believers, i.e. dead-heads. Visit Bethel, you'll see what I mean.

  They can get it, but they will pursue their course for any number of reasons.

  My father is an elder and he recently attended the latest elder's school. (It's a complete joke for the rational)

  He couldn't stop remarking about all the things that were brought out that I have been bringing out for years. Their abuse of authority, their incredible cruelty, and their indifference. What is the opposite of love? Indifference. And they still think that they are the true religion.

  Isn't it amazing, every elder believes that he is making a difference even though he is incapable of recognizing that he is part of the problem.

  I love my parents and if they want to be a part of that stupid religion, I can live with that.
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  still thinking

  I don't think anyone has the right to force their belief or non belief on anyone...but if they are interested...even just a tad...why not?

  Promoting doubt is the best that can be achieved in this situation IMO.
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  cedars

  Curiouscynic - I think many of us on the forum empathize with your situation. It's certainly never easy. On the one hand you think "leave them be", but then every so often you feel the strong urge to wake them up to reality so that they can share it with you. I personally think that's perfectly normal, and I have those urges too.

  One thing I have observed is that you can't wake someone up unless they have doubts in the first place. It was certainly that way for me. I had a number of doubts that were 'suppressed', and then a series of events conspired to awaken me to the true reality about the organization - and I realized that my doubts were justified all along. Your Dad sounds like he also has doubts, but in many ways he "doesn't WANT to know". You have to see things from his perspective. He will have probably devoted most of his life to the servitude of the organization, and the thought that all that time and effort was wasted may be too much for him to begin to contemplate. It's slightly different for you, because you probably have a fair-sized chunk of your life (if not most of your life) left to live.

  My own Dad is an elder and is aware of how I feel, but doesn't want to discuss it with me - so you could say that I relate directly to your situation. I've pondered many times how to reach him. I've settled on the idea that the best thing to do is wait patiently for an opportunity to arise. I never know what might happen in the future that might prise the door slightly ajar by way of an opportunity to get the message through to him in a way that he can relate to.

  Apart from biding your time, another thing you can do (if only for your own therapy) is record a video explaining everything, and burn it onto a DVD. You can then hide the DVD somewhere, maybe in his house, for him to watch at some future point when the time is right. There might come a desperate time when he feels he can no longer speak to you, or say if something happened to you, and it would be nice to say "there's something I want you to watch, here's where it is....". That's something I intend to do at some point. I don't know if that's helpful to you, if only for therapeutic value.

  Cedars
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  ABibleStudent

  curiouscynic - Interesting point, Black Sheep. I've just never really thought of them [converts, recruitees] as victims before. It seems to me, fairly obvious what you're getting yourself into. But I've seen many say that's not how it was for them, so...

  Hi curiouscynic, Have you ever wondered why the WTBTS doesn't tell JWs to proclaim to potential converts that we refuse blood transfusions, we don't celebrate birthdays and holidays, we don't believe that "Worldly" people deserve to know the truth (i.e., theocratic warfare strategy), women must be submissive to their husbands, women cannot give presentations from the podium, JWs must blindly follow whatever the GB and elders say, we will shun are children and friends when commanded to, etc? I know from personal experience that either an elder lied to me about shunning family members or was was not aware of WTBTS practices as described in the July 15, 2011 Watchtower Study Edition. Also, why does the WTBTS need to have more than one edition of the Watchtower?

  FYI converts and recruitees are not the only victums. R&F JWs are also victums of the WTBTS.

  curiouscynic - Do you attempt to "free" your loved ones from the destructive WTS cult by any means necessary? Or is it appropriate to acknowledge that they have the right to make their OWN decision [mind control notwithstanding]?

  The short answer is "No, you can only plant seeds of doubt." I would never use kidnapping nor lying to awaken a JW. I would also never stop trying to think of new ways to awaken them. I would send JWs anonymous emails like I wrote about in http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/211893/1/Youe28099ve-Got-Mail-TM. I might mail them Raymond Franz's books (i.e., "Crisis of Conscience") anonymously. I would send them emails/cards with plenty of pictures of you having fun with your family. I would read Steve Hassan's books to help me communicate with them more effectively. I would ask them simple questions like what I and others wrote about in http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=13168.msg208281;topicseen#new.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert