by TheClarinetist 81 Replies latest jw friends
Yes, dear TC (again, peace to you!), good way to go! Ummm... dear WH (peace to you!), I think you might need to re-read the OP and subsequent responses. Jumping to the last one as you did seems to have caused you to also jump to some fairly wrong conclusions, methinks.
Peace to you, both!
SA, on her own...
TheClarinetist, let me give you the long answer now that we PM'd.
First you mentioned insurance. If your landlord claims this on the insurance then you should only owe what the insurance doesn't cover. You might owe her a deductible. Your landlord can not claim this on the insurance and charge you, that is double dipping.
However, (this is where it gets tricky) you should not assume that you can "poke holes in the lease" unless you were somehow involved in drafting it, which I assume you were not. Whatever you agreed to in that lease your landlord can hold you liable. For example: If there is a $500 kitchen fire fine, then you would owe that for sure. You need to re-read the lease throughly and see if there are any agreements about damages and accidents. Generally, even if unspecified in a lease, it is understood that the property is to be returned as it was given with reasonable ware and tear. Imagine renting your car to a friend for a month, it would be assumed that it would be returned as a usuable car. If it was missing four tires and rims, you would hold the renter responsible. Lease agreements spell this out sometimes to resolve the agreements before court even though a judge would support them with or with out it in writing.
Also, generally it is the landlord's job to repair damages due to accidents, storms, riots, whatever.... If you had a keg party and knocked a hole in the wall, the landlord has a right and responsbility to fix it. You are not in a position to say, "nahh just leave it till I move out.". So it is in the landlord's interest to fix her property and maintain it, to her liking.
Where your responsibility comes in is to pay the rent and any utilities agreed upon in the lease + damages in this case. I would not worry about the security deposit right now unless you have more than six months left on the lease. In that case it would be reasonable for the landlord to want to be paid promptly and recieve another deposit incase there were any more "accidents". This is what security deposits are for and you should consider yourself owing what ever it costs to repair - (minus) the security deposit. As far as the speed with which you must repay, again this is generally unspecified (unless your lease says otherwise).
If I were you I continue to pay rent until the repairs are complete and your lease is up. Then let the landlord know you will pay what you owe when you get a statement. You do not have to legally pay for the repairs until the landlord provides you a statement. This is one thing required in Texas tennant-landlord law is clear about. Also, once you move out the landlord has 30 days to mail a statement to your last known address stating how your security deposit was applied or they owe you 3 times your deposit.
So I would Pay my rent everymonth plus what I could pay on the damages after I am billed. If I felt the statement was unreasonable or the landlord was trying to charge me when she was been paid by the insurance company, then I would keep paying my rent and let her take me to court. When I went to eviction court, I would present records showing I have been continuing to pay rent, but I have not A) received a statement for the repairs, B) Believe the landlord was paid for this by insurance and is double dipping, C) Do not believe I am responsible for the repairs because of another reason. The judge will do one of several things, he will A) evict you (usually only for non-payment of rent many are reluctant to do it because you have not paid for an accident) B) order the landlord to provide you the documentation you need to pay C) adjust the charges and make them reasonable and customary (for example the judge tells the landlord she is charging to much and orders you to pay 1k instead of 2,500.) The judge can not really tell you how to pay, just that you owe it. If the judge decides that you owe X amount then you will be given a chance to pay, most likely. If you have not paid in a reasonable time, then the landlord will have to file for another court date and explain why the judge should evict you. In most cases if this was truly an "accident" and you are paying in good faith, you will not be evicted. However, if this fire was the result of a pattern or irresponsibility or illegal and dangerous activity (i.e. running a meth lab) then the judge could make an exception. I would get a copy of the Fire Department's report if that supports your claim that this was an accident, not the result of arson or illegal activity. Hopefully it will not go that far.
From what I hearing, I think it is very likely that your landlord is a little freaked out about the fire. She might be worried that you and your guests are reckless and she might lose the entire property in a fire (irrational as it may be). She might be trying to scare you into vacating, in that case you will pretty much be responsible for what ever she bills you for. I saw this many times when I tennant would feel pressure and leave the landlord would then bill for replacing everything from light switch covers to carpet and paint even if it was not really needed just to update the place on someone's nickle. Be calm, professional, and keep acting in good faith while keeping good records. The landlord might not be happy that it is taking you 3 or 4 months to pay her for the repairs, but most won't waste their time having a judge tell them to "get over it" in court either.
In short, continue to pay your rent and what ever the landlord provides you in writing that she spent repairing the place minus your deposit. You should be ok. Keep in mind, regardless if you go to court or not the judge can not make the landlord sign another lease with you. So I would expect to be looking for a new place when the current lease expires.
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Disclaimer: I am not an attorney or financial advisor, any information I give is just that, information. You must make your own decision and I am not responsible for any consequences based on information provided.
MY HUSBAND IS A LAWYER and he SAYS TO FIRST CHECK WHAT YOUR LEASE SAYS. we are not in TEXAS OR I'D HAVE HIS FIRM HELP YOU OUT.
LV101
At the risk of repeating myself, no one can give you legal advice on a forum. A TX lawyer could not. You see the factors you consider important but you may not see other factors that are crucial. Many lawyers will give a free 45-minute consultation to drum up business. As others have suggested, make certain the lawyer has expertise in landlord/tenant law. It is much cheaper in the long and the advice will be much better. One way to keep fees down is to watch the idle chit chat time and to have every document available. Prepare a written outline or summary of the facts. You should pay for legal expertise, not organizers.
The key is what the lease says b/c it is the contract defining your rights. Texas will have a statute that might modify or clarify items in the lease. When I leased in Manhattan, the lease was meaningless. So many people rent in NY that the state wrote the basic lease. Certainly, the damages are high enough to warrant seeing a real, life TX lawyer. You don't know what latent damage might be present. It could cost a lot more than you expect. The smart and inexpensive thing is to see a real lawyer. A real lawyer can be sued for malpractice. Internet forum members have no legal duties to you.
o_O WTF? Most recent craziness.
Me:
I apologize if there was some confusion or misunderstanding about the contents of my last email. I did not have time to properly proof-read as I was leaving for work and felt that it was vital that I respond to you as soon as possible given the time frame during which repairs will be starting. We are doing absolutely everything in our power to get you the money as soon as possible, and I was as a courtesy warning you that there was a possibility, however small, that the loan might not disburse by the date you specified. I am sorry if there was an implication that we were delaying or were unaware of the urgency of the situation.
We still need have not received an itemized bill/estimate, and would also request, if at all possible, a copy of any applicable information or estimates from your insurance company.
Landlord:
Fire damaged was caused by you. It is also in the Fire Report. All of you also mislead us that you have Tenant insurance which you did not. You lied to us. We do not owe you any receipts and we are not going to provide you any receipts. If we have to go through an attorney I can assure you , you will be paying much higher than $1623 for the repairs , plus the attorney cost and also prior to work is done. I have put lot of hours of work getting your place fixed. We have followed the lease. I do not want to go back and forth about this.Wow... I... Is it just me or was that response a little uncalled for? She also went on to mention some unrelated things involving some items that are in the backyard which she claims are a "public nuisance". Fair enough... but wow. Also, if I understand right she is threatening to force us to pay more if we fight her or ask for receipts... which might be true if she was being nice, but I kind of doubt that and this reply is enough to make me think that she's padding the amount. Just... wow... O_o
This has gone beyond the point where I can even email her before talking to a lawyer. Just... wow.
Yes! All these people offering legal advice who are not lawyers are breaking the law. When you sit down with a local lawyers, the lawyer can ascertain how nasty she is, and what your overall relationship is. Someone saying something with authority does not make it correct. See WTBTS. Unless engineers have come and gone with extensive repairs, you have no clue as to your actual liability.
A real lawyer might calm the waters so that she doesn't follow you around as you seek new shelter. Starting a fire is not a good way to rent a new apartment. If it were intentional, it was criminal. I can spot partial issues. You have several. It not black and white as other people are suggesting. Her email should scare you into silence. Posting here might not be a great idea, either. You may be posting too many details to get back some basic information. Too many variables are in play.
Band on the run before you accuse people of breaking the law you should slow down. Someone only breaks the law if they represent their self as an attorney AND gives advice FOR money!
To you Theclarinetest- this is not something that should be handled by email. Tone and inflection do not work well in that medium. People take things the wrong way. The landlord is obviously upset that the fire occured in the first place and indicates a lack of trust when she mentions something about "insurance". Many landlords require insurance for this reason.
If you did indicate that you had liability insurance and you do not, then you should call or meet face-to-face and figure out what you can do to make it right ASAP.
What I would do (notice how I word that on purpose Band on the Run) at this point is, I would check the lease and see if I agreed to maintain liability insurance. If you did agree to and you did not, you are in a bad position and the landlord has grounds to evict you right now whether you pay or not.
Second, I would not make the "loan dispersement" your landlord's problem. The last thing she wants to hear is about your financial problems.
Out of curiosity, how much was your deposit and how much time is left on your lease?
FYI, she needs to provide you with a statement of some sort. I would not word it as you have (estimates, expenses, etc..) it sounds too nosey. You simply need a bill, something saying you owe $1623 for fire damage if you find that number to be agreeable. If you do not find that number to be agreeable then you will need the statement to compare against your own estimates to help a judge decide what is reasonable. Either way, sounds like she wants you out. Like I said before, if I had a couple of months on the lease, and a 1,000 deposit. I would pay her 623 and move on. Also, she still has to send you that itemized statement with in 30 days of move out or owes you triple your deposit. Something to keep in mind. She sounds like an amatuer from the email. I hope the two of you can work it out with out an attorney.
P.S. You sound like you are agreeing to pay when you email her about "loan dispersements" you might have a hard time fighting all of this. She can not really dead line you for payment, but you should pay as promptly as possible after paying rent of course. If it isn't quick enough for her, she can take you to eviction court and you can let a judge handle it. You won't necessarily need an attorney for that. It will be JP court in TX and it's a lot like Judge Judy. Common sense goes a long way in those court rooms.
Wha Happened,
Before you rag on the Clarinetist (even moreso than you already have), the least you could do is read what he said. He has ALL intentions on paying, and he is not trying to screw anyone. He is making it his main priority to get this resolved, and I congratulate him on stepping up to the plate to get this taken care of. I would hate to have you as a landlord, you sound very unreasonable and quick to jump to false conclusions. I feel sorry for your tenants, and I hope that they never do anything to piss you off.
Clarinetist,
Aguest and Cagefighter have come up with some great points, as well as some others here. I am sorry that you are going through this. We went through the same type of situation when we rented out our home. They burnt the garage down, and refused to pay rent after that. They ended up trashing our home so badly that we ended up bankrupt, and our $115,000 home ended up selling for only $4,000, that is how badly they destroyed it. I wish that we would have had a responsible tenant such as yourself who is trying to correct things. I think that an attorney is a good idea. Perhaps there is a legal aid in your area that won"t charge too much yet you will still be able to have legal councel. I think that the landlord should give you an itemized bill, but maybe I would not push it too much if she is willing to let things slide for $1600. I would make sure though that you get it in writing that after that $1600, you are free and clear from any other charges. $1600 for a new kitchen sounds very cheap. Nowadays it is easy to spend that just on new cabinet fronts. An attorney will be able to guide you. Above all, try to stay nice to her, even if she is getting snappy with you. She is probably stressed out over this too. It is her kitchen after all...
I wish you the best!!!!
No, it is illegal to give legal advice unless you are a member of that state's bar. Whether or not you pay a fee should not matter. If I represent someone in NY on a pro bono basis, I still have legal duties. I can still be sued. If I tell a judge that what the f......, it was for free, I will get a much harsher penalty. The issue is competence and acceptance of bad consequences from the advice. Legal info may be given. When someone gives you a fact summary, though, legal info becomes legal advise.
Here, saying that they should see a landlord/tenant specialist is not legal advice. Commenting on the facts is legal advice. I offer legal info on this forum. My policy is to never get too engaged and actually research something. No one posts their credentials here and what their assets are to attach in case the advice is faulty. Such advice, though well meaning, can harm someone seriously. People here see what is in the post. No one asked probing questions to hit all possible areas that could impact this case.
The reason why I am nuts about nonlawyers or lawyers from other states giving legal advice is not to maintain a better market for admitted lawyers. I was the biggest offender in college. I was warned repeately about giving legal advice. My will weak. College exposed me to some legal concepts. I thought everyting was settled and black and white. I knew no procedural issues. So I opined based on the New York Times and Village Voice. Also, I kept no database of people who received my advice. The first few days of law school cured me. I had such pangs of regret as I reallize that people probably relied on what I said to their detriment. There is a reason law school lasts more than one day.
Information about leases being a contract sounds nice. These contracts, however, do not stand alone. State statute define terms. If there is a difference between a statutory provision and the lease, the lease might control b/c the parties actually negotiated the matter or the statute might prevail b/c it shows the public policy of the state. There are probably thousands of cases interpreting the statute. Besides the l/l/tenant matter, there are many thousands of case analyzing contracts. This is why out of state lawyers aren't a good idea.
Most of the above is true/false. Law is creative. It would be helpful to know the parties and what they want from the deal. Knowing what is completely unacceptable to each party is also important. Knowing how the local courts tend to rule vs. all of Texas is also important.
There are good legal self help books available that have flow charts on when to see a lawyer. They offer information, not advice. I would not recommend them in this case b/c the facts (of which we are aware) show some complex matters. More than a hang nail is involved.
Believe my ardor flows from my past certainty. Once upon a time, I would have posted legal advice round the clock. It is impossible to do in such a format.
