Looking for advice/thoughts/opinions RE Celebrating Xmas

by stuckinlimbo 34 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Ding

  Do you have a good enough relationship with your parents that you could ask them what they would do if you put up a Christmas tree in your own home? That might be a good way to phrase it; it's your home, not theirs. You could make clear that you are not asking their permission. You're an adult now and you know what they think of Christmas. You don't agree with them. What you want to know is where they would feel obligated to draw the line. Would they take steps to have you DFd? Would they shun you? You'd like to know where you and your family (including their grandson) would stand with them.

  If you don't feel comfortable even talking about it with your parents about this, then you'll have to base your decision on your best guess as to what they would do and decide whether it's worth the risk of getting hit with the worst case scenario. I personally don't think I would do anything behind their back. That doesn't mean you have to invite them over to see the tree and exchange gifts, but neither would I want to be sneaking around as if I were doing something wrong.

  Even if your parents agree to look the other way, you would still be taking the risk that your son would tell JW kids about celebrating Christmas. Their parents might then turn you in to the elders. Only you can decide if the risk is worth it.

  Regarding Santa, one option is to tell your son that Santa is a fun pretend person like Barney the dinosaur but that some kids think he's real so please don't spoil things for them by telling them he's just pretend. They'll find out soon enough. We took this approach with our kids (we didn't have the JW family issues to worry about). Our kids enjoyed Christmas just fine and we never had to tell them that we had lied to them about Santa.
• 

  take me higher

  Hi stuckinlimbo, you know I should have picked that screen name cause your situation is so similar to mine. I faded away a long time ago but now that I have 2 small children, 5 yrs and 9 months old, some issues are very hard when you still have family in the organization. My parents have been in for about 35 yrs and I know they will never leave, like you said you don't know if you would even want them to at this point, I say let them hold on to their hope, now that I see my dad in his 70's it's really one of the few things he has left. And my mom is real hard core in it so I know she would never leave. Having said that, I have decided that I don't want to raise my children that way, I am married to someone who was raised Catholic but isn't a practicing Catholic, so you know how big holidays were for him growing up, therefore he wants the same for our sons. When our first son was born it was easy for a while to just let my husband get him a few things for christmas and put them under the tree, I felt the less I did I wasn't really celebrating it full on. And I'd like to add that we live on the same street as my parents just a few doors down across the street, so they (my dad especially) are over pretty regularly.

  But now that he is getting older and we have another one now, I have found myself wanting to be involved more in christmas. I'm the one who told my husband to put up the tree earlier this year (we've had it up for at least a couple weeks now), I just love the lights and with shorter days now it just brings cheer to the room. Here is the thing, my parents to this day think that it is just my husband alone who celebrates the holidays. My dad made a comment the other day about my husband putting up the tree early this year, I just said 'yep'. I don't have the heart to tell him I wanted it too! I would love to just tell them that we are all celebrating christmas as a family but I just can't do it. It's funny how even though I am an adult now with my own family I'm too afraid to tell them how I really feel. Like you, my parents still give me the magazines from time to time and make comments about me going back to meetings sometimes, although it's becoming less and less cause I think they know at this point I have no interest in going.

  My advice is to do whatever feels right to you regarding how to handle it with your family. Sometimes it's not all black and white, lots of shades of gray. My husband asked my dad one time if he would still talk to me if I was DF'd and my dad replied 'what do you think?' He meant that yes he would still talk to me, and I have this feeling that based on how you described your parents as being reasonable and loving, I think they would do the same. In my opinion I think most (well hope anyway) reasonable thinking witnesses would know that the shunning thing with family members is just ridiculous at this point in time. I could be wrong, but that would be my hope anyway. So just do the best you can, there's nothing wrong with wanting to get a small tradition going with your child, just something special that you guys do at this time of year, however small, it could be just baking holiday cookies or something. It's the little things that count anyway right? Best wishes to you
• 

  stuckinlimbo

  U2B: Nice to know we are in this together! Fortunately we don't have any JWs living around us so don't come under to much scrutiny from outside the family.

  Scooterspank: I was already thinking along the lines of putting a tree in an unused room for a short period of time. But I will do it next year, as we will be going to a friend's for Christmas this year and she will have a tree there that we will put presents under. That's so sad about you having to hide an ivy plant Christmas tree under your bed . I never wanted one as a kid as I was thoroughly convinced they were evil!

  Ding: I think asking them may push them to say that they would have to take action, when in reality, if I had not said anything, they might pretend not to notice if my son tells them something, etc. Talking about it might switch the cult personality to "on". My son won't be associating with any other JW kids until he goes to school, except the annual to bi-annual visit with cousins I mentioned... I think what you mentioned about Santa is a good idea and what I had thought I would do.

  Take me higher: This is actually my second screen name, my first "breakingfree" I lost the password for with an old computer and it was not an easy one to remember (i had always copied and pasted). This one seems more realistic though...unfortunately, I don't think I'll be breaking completely free for some time! It is good you can celebrate under the guise of your non-JW husband! The August2011 watchtower is a concern to me but maybe by next year the idea of shunning family will be a little relaxed again, until the next article comes out

  I really appreciate your help guys!
• 

  rebel8

  I use only natural decorations too, like Blondie said, and I keep it through New Year's. I am atheist too and don't get into any xian stuff. I suppose the natural stuff was pagan, but I'm not doing it for that reason any more than my autumn wreath is paganism.

  Dubs are masters at reworking things to make it palatable to them (blood fractions flip flops, eating turkey on Thanksgiving w/all the trimmings but calling it "Thursday", going out to dinner on one's "date of birth", etc.). If they question why you've got a wreath on the door then couch it in terms of "just celebrating winter".

  You are trying to make the difficult choice of having a normal childhood for your child vs. continuing to observe religious beliefs you no longer hold...just to make others happy. (I consider avoiding xmas for religious reasons to be observing it...in some regard.)

  Me, I think the kid's needs should come first. You did things the parents' way for years already. Your kid cannot redo his childhood.

  Maybe this will sound silly but I have pain now for the normal joys of childhood deprived of me. Yes I know I did not have the worst childhood on the planet and am not trying to overly pity myself. But it does pain me, rightly so. I have difficulty opening the door to trick-or-treaters b/c it makes me sad thinking of what I didn't experience. Same thing watching in-laws' kids open xmas presents, go to prom, etc.
• 

  jamiebowers

  Your first priorty is your child. In my mind, holidays in modern day are simply a reminder to take time for special ocassions and celebrate them with family and friends. Decorations should include what you and your husband and kids like. For instance, I'm agnostic, but I've always loved angels...so I have about a thousand of them, LOL.

  Why not approach your parents with this?: "When I was a child I respected your way of doing things, and now that I'm an adult I expect the same from you. I think it would benefit my children to celebrate the holidays, so that's what we're going to do. If I'm df'd and you decide to shun me, I want you to know that my kids and I are a package deal...you choose to ignore me, you choose to ignore your grandchildren." Then leave no room for argument. Just find a mantra to keep repeating...something like, "I respected your child rearing decisions, and I expect you to the same for me."

  Of course it's beneficial for children to have a good relationship with their grandparents, but it's much more important for them to see that their parents are confident about their parenting. Trying to hide a normal life from yor parents may induce unneccesary guilt for your children and make you appear spineless and sneaky to them.

  Maybe this will sound silly but I have pain now for the normal joys of childhood deprived of me. Yes I know I did not have the worst childhood on the planet and am not trying to overly pity myself. But it does pain me, rightly so. I have difficulty opening the door to trick-or-treaters b/c it makes me sad thinking of what I didn't experience. Same thing watching in-laws' kids open xmas presents, go to prom, etc.

  (((((Rebel8)))). It never ceases to amaze me how people think that only those of us who were physically or sexually abused as children deserve any regret over how we were raised. Your saddness is very valid.

  That being said, it's important for the OP to know that the only thing that helped me with the saddness I felt over my childhood, (jw related and otherwise), was giving my kids what I didn't have.