Looking for advice/thoughts/opinions RE Celebrating Xmas

by stuckinlimbo 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • carla
    carla

    Your all grown up now, you should do as you and your husband think best. I don't mean to sound harsh but it sounds as if you are trying to decide between giving your child as normal of life as possible but hold back for financial reasons as well as trying not to piss daddy off.

    It is great if grandma & grandpa have a relationship with your child, however, do you really think they will not try to indocrinate him? You are worried about 1 holiday at the moment (birthdays next) but I am of the opinion you have much more to worry about down the road. Are you willing to go to any lengths to protect your childs physical, emotional, mental and spiritual life? You may be the one to one day have to limit contact with the parents if they will not abide by your rules of not indoctrinating your child. If you don't, you may very well end up the shunned one by your own child should he drink the kool aid.

    Holidays and traditions are markers in life that so many here do not have. What? you remember that great convention of '88? wow, what a blast! Give your son some sort of traditions and memories in life. Protect him and teach him critical thinking skills.

    oops, I see Morbidzbaby basically has said the same thing.

    Reread Scully's post so you can use the scriptures if you must with elder dad.

  • ShadesofGrey
    ShadesofGrey

    Big hugs to you!

    We are disassociating this month so that we can openly celebrate! As a Christian I do not feel right keeping the light under a basket.

  • undercover
    undercover

    If you're faded then it's more difficult than if you were DA/DFd.

    The holidays present a challenge for the faded person who still has family still faithful to the bOrg. You may like celebrating and maybe you want to decorate even, but to keep the peace in the family - or to keep the hounds at bay - you have to curtail these activities to some degree.

    You have to weigh how much you want to keep the family peace against how much you want to express your freedom to do what you want. There is no one answer that works for everyone.

    Good luck.

  • undercover
    undercover
    Atheists and Christmas:

    There is a debate among atheists about whether they should celebrate Christmas or not. Some do so because they aren’t out as atheists. Some do so in order not to rock the boat among religious family members. Some do so because they always have and don’t want to change — or simply enjoy the holiday. Others argue that it should be replaced by a more rational holiday, and still others argue that all such holidays should be ignored by atheists. Is there a case to be made for this?

    I have two atheist friends who celebrate xmas in a big way. Only they don't celebrate baby Jesus in the manger. They celebrate it in a secular style. They have the lights, the tree, the presents. Their ornaments are related to favorite movies, sports teams, etc. They have parties and the xmas spirit comes in a bottle. One atheist friend grew up with the tradition of xmas and he wants to make sure his kids have the same tradition. As far as the religious aspect, he's going to let them decide for themselves when they're ready. Point is... holidays, whether they're pagan, Christian or national, evolve over time. Just as Xmas morphed from a pagan celebration, atheists can adapt the Christian holiday to their own principles and beliefs. Just because they don't accept the notion of God or Jesus doesn't mean they can't celebrate Black Friday, lights, music, fruit cake and brightly wrapped gifts any less than someone who does.
  • Scully
    Scully

    Hi stuckinlimbo

    I love your line of reasoning, however, wouldn't they just fall back on the idea that your celebrating the seasons venerates the pagan gods associated with the seasons? By the way, I am in Australia, so I can't really put up snowflakes and call it "welcoming the season" lol! I love lights and tinsel, which have no origin other than being associated with modern Christmas celebrations. I already have a string of icicle lights,

    Is it "celebrating" springtime to pick a bouquet of flowers and put them in a vase on your table? Or is it appreciating what is beautiful about our natural habitat at different times of the year? It's all in how you think about it. Veneration implies worship, but if you are simply adding something natural, attractive and seasonally available to your decor so you can enjoy it more fully, there's no worship or pagan god involved, is there?

    I guess it's summertime in Australia on December 25... so what is "seasonal" down under at that time of year? I mean, you probably still have evergreen trees/branches available to you, right?? Or you could do like some folks in Texas do and hang a string of chili pepper lights around a tropical tree... it's meant to be fun, festive and whatever you want it to be.

    We have white mini lights strung around our back yard all year round so nobody can say that they are specifically "Christmas" lights. We do get snow up here in Canada (first snowfall today actually!) so we have various snowman and snowflake figurines to put around the house - and one time an Elder™ said we shouldn't do that because it gave the appearance of celebrating Christmas. I told him I'd stop if he told the kids in the congregation (including his own) that they could no longer make snowmen outside. He backed off and never brought it up again.

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    I don't think you can have it both ways. Children cannot keep a secret, nor should they have to. I think you're going to have to make a decision and stick with it. If you try to have it both ways, you may just have misery for all.

    One thing you know already-your parents are certainly very attached to your child, as they keep him during the week. I am betting that they will not want to shun you if it means they don't get to see their grandchild. It is, of course, a gamble.

    I know that when we decided to celebrate, my daughter was 17. SHE bought a tree-a little spindly fake one-but all of us-daughter, I, and her dad-went together to the store and picked out ornaments and other decorations, and started our family tradition, which we add to every year. We try to find ornaments that mean something special to each of us-or just ornaments that are so darned cute we have to have them! We decorate very early, and don't take anything down until after New Year's Day.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    We aked our kids if they wanted Jebuz in their xmas - they both said no!!!!!

    So all the fun without crap.

  • used2beme
    used2beme

    We are in the same boat...my parents watch our child during the week. Dad is elder and they still think I’m just missing meetings. We have been able to explain away some of the things he says as 'imaginative' and including himself in the story like it was real...he does this with other things, so at least this year I’m not too worried. My parents are home bodies and never come to our house, but we live in JW hood grand central so I can't do outside lights just yet.

    I never felt left out when I was little, we did other things with extended JW family and had big gift exchange. Now there are NO kids in the family but him...all waiting to have them in the paradise (another issue for another time). So I DO worry about him feeling left out.

    Some on the other side of the fam are DF'd and we are going to spend turkey day with them...still deciding about Xmas day.

    For decorations we decided against the tree and are going to add ornaments and lights to garland under the mantel, and put gifts on a shelf. Along with some candles for HumanLight.

    I wish you the best

    U2B

  • stuckinlimbo
    stuckinlimbo

    Hi All

    Thankyou for the comments. Its great to get so much input!

    Carla said, "it sounds as if you are trying to decide between giving your child as normal of life as possible but hold back for financial reasons as well as trying not to piss daddy off" This is not a fair assessment. I have a close relationship with my parents. My Dad's cultural background means he is a man of few words, but we get on well enough now, and my Mum and I are in constant contact. I seriously don't want to upset them too much in their older age, but then again they have upset me with the whole bringing me up in a cult thing ... I mentioned the will thing as a sidepoint, and there is not that much money involved, more the sentimental/memories stuff and that being cut out would be hurtful. You asked "Are you willing to go to any lengths to protect your childs physical, emotional, mental and spiritual life? You may be the one to one day have to limit contact with the parents if they will not abide by your rules of not indoctrinating your child." Yes. I am not about to throw my child to the wolves if that is what the situation becomes, however they are getting older (70s) and don't seem to have a desperate "we must save them" thing going on, but don't worry, I'm staying alert, and like I said, there will be a lot less unsupervised care from next year.

    About Christmas and Atheism, I didn't mean that to be an issue but it's interesting to hear all your comments. In my town, in my age group, so-called "Christians" who may belong to a church use it for funerals/marriages/christenings and that's about it, some don't even do that. There is no Jesus in Christmas for most of these people anyway, so it is mainly a secular holiday for these families as well. I think the end of the year is a great time to celebrate and give gifts.

    Undercover said:

    "The holidays present a challenge for the faded person who still has family still faithful to the bOrg. You may like celebrating and maybe you want to decorate even, but to keep the peace in the family - or to keep the hounds at bay - you have to curtail these activities to some degree.

    You have to weigh how much you want to keep the family peace against how much you want to express your freedom to do what you want. There is no one answer that works for everyone.

    I am thinking maybe I should just leave off the Chrismas tree itself, as that will probably be the greatest issue, for the time being and just do the lights/presents/food/etc. Lights are a big thing over here, but it is harder to pin them as Christmas. I don't want to have to moderate what I do, but at the same time I think it's great that my son has such lovely Grandparents, I never had that (well I had Grandparents but not like my Mum and Dad). I think happy, carefree association with them, without the tension of mum and dad being shunned, is probably more important to him than a Christmas tree. I think maybe it is more my desire to be "normal" than his, that is driving the tree thing (and the fact I think Chrismas trees are pretty). I may be able to put up tinsel, especially since my mum brought a bag of old tinsel over that I used to have (I loved tinsel and she used to buy it for me after Christmas) a couple of months ago with the comment that I might use it for parties and Jack might like it.

    There will be no Santa in our house, I just don't feel comfortable with the idea and worry it paves the way for irrational belief, considering our particular situation of our child being in contact with JWs. Plus if we buy our child a nice present I want them to know it comes from me and his dad!

    Thanks for all your comments again. They really do help. I apologise for the disjointed nature of my writing but I am pressed for time and sleep deprived...

  • scooterspank
    scooterspank

    Might I suggest a small 2-3 foot tree? Let him pick out the decorations and lights and set it up in his room. You could even go back to the old tradition of putting the tree up on Christmas Eve and have lots of gifts waiting when he wakes up. The benefit of having a small tree is that it can be hidden easily if need be (sadly I know this for a fact). Even a little bit of Christmas would be better than no Christmas at all. I remember as a kid taking an ivy plant in my room, wrapping it with a red hair ribbon and hiding it under my bed. That was my first Christmas tree. I think you have the ability to give your child a nice Christmas and still maintain family peace. If he blabs about it just tell them he wanted a tree and he wouldn't let the idea go so you caved and bought a tiny one. Sad to have to lie? Yes. But I say oh well in this case. Give your kid some kind of a normal Christmas. He deserves it and so do you IMHO.

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