In the LAST DAYS (mockers, scoffers) ridiculers will come saying:

by Terry 100 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  cofty

  Oh dear - one day you will look back on this sort of thinking and cringe.

  You have absolutely no concept of historical context. As an atheist I often think I have more respect for the bible than many believers do. I care about the context and intention of the original authors. Many believers treat the bible like a repository of random words that can be hijacked at will.

  No such fate awaits the world. There is no angry god who is about to pour out blood and entrails. "Jesus meek and mild" is dead and became worm food 2000 years ago - he is gone get over it. We have tremendous potential as a species to make the world a even better place than it is now. Please don't waste energy worrying about the ravings of ancient seers.
• 

  PSacramento

  See, when I read those verse I understand how SOME could have seen it that way and WHY the apostles kept telling them that was NOT the case.

  Blame the way it was written, blame the way it was interpreted but don't blame the apostles ofr nOT trying to make it clear that wasn't the case.

  That Jesus could have said soemthing like that, that Matthew worded in a typical apocalyptic context is quite possible BUt that Jesus ACTUALLY said and MEANT that isn't because it is clear in the context of that chapter and ACtTS that Jesus told them more than once that the time is UNKNOWN to Man and NONE of their business.

  That some people STILL tried to read into things and still DO, has nothing to do with what Jesus may or may not have said.
• 

  cofty

  But even in Acts and the epistles nowhere is there even the slightest clue that anybody expected Jesus' return to be in a future generation. Its possible to see adjustment of expectations and the possiblity of some falling asleep in death but not of the parousia being at a distant future time.
• 

  The Quiet One

  Johnathan said: " ..Zephaniah's warning, where theancient prophet transmitted the Almighty's words, "I will utterly consume all things from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah. I will consume man andbeast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the faceof the ground, saith Jehovah" (Zephaniah 1:2,3) Complete destruction of man on earth is intended. " -- You're using a translation that says 'ground', some use the word 'land', which makes the context more clear, but even so, look at the next verse.. Zephaniah 1:4 " I will also stretch out my hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the idolatrous and pagan priests".. When God was wiping everyone from the ground, did he miss a spot? Forgive my sarcasm.. But why would verses 2+3 be referring to the whole earth, would that not make verse 4 pointless? If God were talking about destroying the whole earth , why would he have to point out that the destruction would ALSO include Judah?
• 

  PSacramento

  But even in Acts and the epistles nowhere is there even the slightest clue that anybody expected Jesus' return to be in a future generation. Its possible to see adjustment of expectations and the possiblity of some falling asleep in death but not of the parousia being at a distant future time.

  I think there was a very real desire for it to happen and when things started to get real ugly for the Christians, even more so.

  And as with human nature, we tend to be lead by our hearts and it isn't surprising that many would read their hearts desires into their understanding of things, heck we do that now and none of us are under the kind of stress that the followers of Christ were.

  That Jesus said over and over that the time can't be predicted ( thief in the night), and that Man shouldn't try to figure it out ( God's business not ours) is quite clear and that people ignored that and continue to do so is also clear.

  Human nature to want what we most desire to happen sooner rather than later.

  BUT I also think there was a very real "push" by His followers to the urgency of the Gospel, perhaps it was an "overzealousness" to save people or just their very own "misunderstanding" ( wouldn't be the first time for them).
• 

  cofty

  But the expectation of the iminent return of Jesus seriously affected the lives of early christians just as the borgs false prophecies have affected the lives of JWs

  If Jesus was leading the early church as he promised he made an amateur job of it and it would have been so simple for him to make it all plain.
• 

  N.drew

  I thought "the thief in the night" refers to the Watchtower Society stealing the people for Jesus from Jesus. I know Jaheshua works through the people, seeing he's a spirit, he needs people (and people need him). So they took the people that were the people for God's will be done, and made them their own people. But it might be God's will after all. See Gideon.
• 

  PSacramento

  But the expectation of the iminent return of Jesus seriously affected the lives of early christians just as the borgs false prophecies have affected the lives of JWs

  Indeed and IF the apostles were feedinginto that view, then they were very wrong to do so.

  If Jesus was leading the early church as he promised he made an amateur job of it and it would have been so simple for him to make it all plain.

  The HS reveals things to Us in a way that we are suppose to understand WITHOUT forcing Us to understand.

  We don't always see the light, even if it is as bright as the sun.

  Not to mention that many times we CHOOSE HOW to understand and which parts we WANT to understand.

  We are the imperfect human vessels of Our Lords desires for US and we don't always get things right and it certaibly seems like a horrific way of doing things but you knwo what?

  It is US doing things and US trying to understand and US making mistakes and fixing them, not Us being CONTROLLED and DICTATED to, know what I mean?

  Why do we screw up so much? because we try for too many times to do it WITHOUT Christ and then WE screw up and HE gets the blame.

  An example is Peter, how many times did Peter disboey Christ even deny him? and even after the ressurection Christ had to coem to him and tell him to accept Gentiles and even then, every so often Peter went against that ( as Paul called him on it a few times).
• 

  cofty

  Enjoyed our discussions this evening PSacremento - its late now in UK so I am off to bed

  Best wishes
• 

  PSacramento

  Thank you for the stimulating discussion as always my friend :)

  Take care of yourself.