Hello--new to the witnesses...and you

by LKM 85 Replies latest jw friends

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Welcome LKM!

    Situations vary from congregation to congregation and situation to situation. Chances are that things won't go as simply as you're hoping. They may decide to make a whole dumpster load of demands before they reinstate him. Be prepared for you privacy to be invaded. If you get married soon after his reinstatement, they will be dragging him into the back room again. You are dealing with a cult, so the person most likely to be hurt in all this will be the child.

    But don't be discouraged. You certainly have much more insight than average. And you clearly care about this guy. Hang around here and you'll learn a lot about the JW craziness.

  • nugget
    nugget

    Wecome to the forum. You and your boyfriend have a challenging time ahead. If he is seeking reinstatement for whatever reason he will be asked to demonstate his repentance. If you live together he will be expected to change this and may be pressured to give you up as witnesses are expected to marry only in the lord, meaning other JWs. You need to decide what you both are willing to accept. It is certainly tricky since if you wish to pass even as vaguely interested then you will be expected to have a Bible study.

    I would suggest that if you wish to marry then you should do this prior to his seeking reinstatement. That way you can be your own person independent of him and what you do will not impact on his reinstatement. A bible study will explain the basic beliefs but it is time consuming you could ask for a copy of the bible teach book and read it independently and understand basic teachings.

    The book will teach you so much but unless you have been in it, it is difficult to understand it completely. Witnesses accept no compromise on anything, they are adament that only they have the truth and therefore the thoughts, ideas and opinions of non witnesses are of little to no value.

    You boyfriend is making a huge sacrifice of himself in order to speak to his family. There is no guarantee that it will not go pear shaped in the future and he is back to square one again. whilst he goes through the process he will be expected to be reindoctrinated and show that he has submitted to the authority of the congregation. I suggest you talk to each other frankly about what he expects to happen and what you are happy with. As him to be honest about what he will expect from you in the coming months. what will you do about the holidays? Be sure you know how his beliefs will impact on your life together. Even if he does not accept them how will his reinstatement change things between you.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Hello x

    I was a JW for 20 years, I conisdered myslef a good human being and I still do. I work as a doctor and so I have no mental diseases or alike. I left the JW's without being DF'd or anything of the like. I found they were not quite as honest as I once thought and found them to be cold hearted under all the love bombing you will soon experience. The people themselves are lovely as are most human beings, but their rules and beliefs make them very judgmental to the point of it being painfully confusing. Spend all morning talking and praying for the coming Armageddon and the death of everyone that is not doing what 8 men in a room in New York say they should , then spend all afternoon trying to 'save' the very same people.

    I dont want to live forever on a paradise earth if the price is that all mankind is destoyed in a day of rage. On top of this I looked into scripture more deeply than the very skim-read approach of all JW's. Not one JW can explain the hypocrisy of a god that commints genocide, infanticide, slavery and war but then encourages you to love your enemy. No one can tell you that god will look after the children at armageddon when he killed hundreds of thousands in the city attacks of the old testament. Or what about the baby of David and Bathsheba, killed as a punishment for THEIR sin. This is all nonsense and disgusting. The god that asked abraham to kill his only son can go suck a bag of cocks.

    Regarding doctrine, the best thing to do is look at their own literature. When I was being groomed for bigger things in the society, I was looking to purchase all the old literature from ebay. I was strongly advised not to. There is a reason why... the flip flpping is immense. Not only that the consequence of all these false teachings have been as severe as death. Check out http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/flip-flops.html for a really good source of what they said and what they say now. We are not talking that long ago either ! Whats funny is, JW's including the old me will say I am showing you apostate material..despite it being straight from their literaure, quote by quote. Probably the most disturbing example is the German yearbook that not only sided with Hitler on his politics, but also on his opinion of the jews. In the 90's the WT society finally lost a case and had to add an apology in one of the magazines. They didnt even do that, they just said they were reffering to some Jews not all Jews, which in context was an account that had them painted as a financially dominant selfish people. There was a quote in the yearbook about New York akin too "they run it, they own it, we pay for it." quie racist stuff.

    I perosnaly left after finding out the JW's were tied up with the UN, a complex situation but shows how little they believe their own doctrine. I also found out they used the stock market to make money. This is supposed to be a charity, using donations on in a casino market! They also tell us to "be no part of the world." and yet here they are rolling the dice as "institutional investors." One elder said "Jehovah is using Satans money to do his work." The day a god needs the stock market is a sad day indeed. They hypocrisy with money is shameful. The final straw for me was seeing that "The Watchtower Society" owned a company (via majority shares )that dealt with NAVY technology. Specifically an engine. The engine was built with military money. It is all available to see in the SEC files of the USA government online. The day I saw that... I said to myself.. the WT society includes me, as a publisher I am a voter in the society. I don't want to be a part of the military complex. The WT society will send a letter to your elders which they will read to you (no copies allowed), if you write to them and ask about it. They say it was an error. They think we are dumb, they attempted to explain it away as donated shares they knew nothing about. You try dontating shares to someone, have them set up a proxy voice, own the majority shares of a company.. without them knowing about it! This was when I decided to leave.

    Since leaving I have learned much.. such the founder being convicted of fraud, including selling fraudlulent material FROM the WT magazines. A 'miracle wheat' blessed by god .......at 7x the normal price. Depite god hating a divorce, he was in fact divorced.. by his wife... because he slept with the maid! All of this whilst he ran the WT society. Then we go on to the later years where there has been a mass of flip-flopping on doctrine that has led to people ACTUALLY DYING !!!! ....

    Sooooo... angry, yes we are. Dissapointed... yes we are..... hurt... yes we are. Evil, mentally diseased apostates trying to mislead the world.. nooooo, we leave that to the experts in brooklyn.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Teary Oberon..

    Doing a WT trick of throwing in a random article on apostacy and using one mans definition from 30 years ago of how 15% of modern church leavers behave... makes you look silly.

    Bless ya x

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    Where has Teary gone? . . . I have to say that a lot of what he says is right. . . . erbie

    No you didn't "have" to say that . . . you chose to. Why you made such a choice is baffling.

    Everybody should have their say right? . . . erbie

    No . . . everybody can have their say . . . whether they should or not is open to debate, and frequently is.

    Too much self reflection doesn't always provide the best standard of measurement.

    LKM . . . coming from an AoG background should give you some insight into this. The JW's are a higher control outfit than AoG . . . there's no middle ground . . . it's either all-in or all-out. You have to be a better liar than they are to fake it . . . and that takes some doing. You have to live the lie. If it's only a temporary arrangement . . . once it's over you're back to square one. You don't have to be DF'd or DA'd to be shunned . . . being "inactive" (not involved in the ministry) is usually enough to be labelled "bad association" or dangerous. So you see . . . it has to be all-in . . . long term. Anything less won't cut the mustard. There is no magic pathway. Getting out with family intact is one thing . . . a case of choosing the best way possible. Going in to the cult for an alterior purpose is a whole other basket of fish IMO.

    Keep in focus what his son will make of it all eventually. If he learns that his Dad and step-mum "faked it" all those years . . . how will he view that? Don't live a lie is my advice in this instance . . . it seldom achieves what we want. You can't circumvent this cult . . . it's in or out.

    I feel like everyone is viewing me as fresh meat. ... I feel like everyone is wondering why the heck I'm there...and they are all eager to know (is that true?)

    Oh yes they're eager . . . you are being assessed. Everyone in each congregation knows the "status" of everyone else . . . down to the details. That's why it's hard to fake it . . . if you can't "speak the language" they will spot it instantly . . . even if you're newly interested. If you're not gushing about how wonderful it is to "find the truth", they will wonder why.

    It's not an easy game you're playing and full of uncertainty result-wise. I can't in all honesty recommend it.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Damn skippy Sizenik.

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    The whole "formality" of going to JW meetings and jumping through the WTS hoops in order to get "reinstated", so the person can have normal family relationships should be A BIG RED FLAG.

    Think About It

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    I have tried in the past to go back for family relationships and it didn't work. They expect very specific obedience and no grain of doubt or questioning is allowed. You're a women so you're regarded even lower than him. If they sense anything wrong they won't reinstate him.

    If anything, if his family doesn't know about you and your relationship and nobody else does, it would be better for him to not tell anyone anything about it and you stay away from it totally, this will minimize the surface on which mistakes can be made. Be careful about any daily/nightly encounters as people may be following him (or you) around if they feel something is up.

    The way I have dated wordly girls in the past (that's an offense in their books) after being found out was to simply tell them that I have broken up with them and be a lot more careful about who is following me around or what I talk about. In the end if he's wanting to lie about his faith, he should be able to lie about you two as well.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    but the man I'm in love with is a df'd JW (we've been together for 6 years).... and he wants to get reinstated just to talk to his family again (I can assure you he does not believe it).... and he wants his family to accept me because we are about to get married...

    I haven't read all of the posts yet, BUT until you are married, you will not help his attempts to be reinstated. If he is dating you, it will be assumed you are "fornicating" OR at the very least, that he is dating someone "not in the lord". It makes no difference that he cannot date a witness since he is DFd, he will be expected to remain chaste and stay free from involvement with a "worldly" woman.

    It doens't have to make any sense. Crazy people make the rules.

    DOC

    [Edited: I see you already know that dating a worldly gal will be an issue. This will delay his reinstatement. I think it would increase the odds of a quick and easy reinstatement if he kept you out of it.]

  • outsmartthesystem
    outsmartthesystem

    "You don't have to be DF'd or DA'd to be shunned . . . being "inactive" (not involved in the ministry) is usually enough to be labelled "bad association" or dangerous."

    Thus far I agree with everything that's been said.....but I might debate this point.....but only slightly. I would honestly say it all depends on the congregation you're associated with. Where I am from....."inactives" are not outright shunned. The elders actually do a reasonably good job of trying to "encourage" such ones by keeping in contact with them. Rank and file witnesses that tow the line perfectly are actually encouraged to try to associate MORE with inactive ones......hoping to get them back to regular attendance at the KH. It isn't until the inactive one displays a "bad attitude" (negative comments/disagreements/in depth questions that undermine the "authority" of the leaders of the organization) that he/she begins to be shunned.

    But that's just my two cents from my personal experiences

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