Well, I'm all out as to most of the "issues" that continue to be raised here (may you all have peace!)... as I believe every one has been properly, accurately, and completely responded to... by myself or another. That those to whom the responses are addressed don't GET it... well, I have no worries: I just chalk it up to being similar as, say, a JW not being able to "get" what they don't get, either... and why: they are drowning in so many "strongly entrenched things" that they just can't see land.
How do I mean that here? I mean it in the sense that some are SO entrenched in their thinking that a "christian" really is only someone who calls themself so... who belongs to a religion that identifies itself as such (particularly if it calls ITSELF the "truth")... and who put their faith in the Bible, even calling it the "Word of God"... and the "God" of the OT... and [believe they] follow the teachings of Christ. You can explain try to them 50 ways from Sunday that NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with being a christian (i.e., chosen/anointed person)... but they won't get it. No matter WHAT you tell them... and even in spite of their proclamation to NOT believe in [a] God... they simply cannot move past the Bible, "Jehovah", "Yahweh", the OT... and more.
So... at some point one has to realize that no matter WHAT you say... how many times you TRY to explain it... and HOW you explain it... these will not get it. Nor will they get that it is not YOUR fault that they don't get it, but their own. Which they can't see... because they don't WANT to see. Yes, yes, I know: "How can you say someone doesn't WANT to see, SA?" My response would actually be something they SHOULD be able to grasp: observation. If one SAYS one wants to know/hear/see... yet such one not only reject the things that must be done TO know/hear/see... not only disbelieve that anyone CAN know/hear/see... but deny, without reservation, the very One who grants them TO know/hear/see. "He" doesn't exist, per them. Yet, they demand a response FROM "Him." As if He is answerable to them... and not the other way around.
Okay, then, so be it: do not believe. That God (and/or Christ) exist... or existed... or speak... or whatever it is you don't believe. That is the BEAUTY of free will: you have a CHOICE. And no one can MAKE you believe.
There's another side of that free will, however, that such ones seem hellbent... and quite hypocritically so... on denying others: the choice TO believe. TO have faith. They, for some reason, cannot comprehend what free will truly IS. They want it for themselves, sure. Of course. But they don't see how, like those who try to MAKE others BELIEVE... they are doing the exact same thing: trying to MAKE others NOT believe. Both camps, therefore, feel that it is within THEIR power... to deny others their free will.
Which is why I reject BOTH camps.
Okay, enough of that. Moving on...
Now you've quoted me in part and deliberately answered completely out of context by misrepresenting what the "it" is . . . exhaustively . . . and you damn well know it.
I truly beg YOUR pardon, dear Size (peace to you!), but I absolutley DIDN'T "damn well know" what you were referring to. I took your comment to be within the context of the DISCUSSION... and so the question "why suffering"? I had NO idea you meant anything other than that. Even so, my response to what you DID mean would be the same as it has always been (see below).
The "worthy" was a relative reference to what some appear to have and others don't by way of INFORMATION.
For the gi-hundreth time, dear one: (1) there is NOTHING that I have in the way of information that YOU... or anyone else... CAN'T have; (2) I cannot answer for anyone but myself but I KNOW that I do not receive what I do because I am "worthy" - I am probably one of the most UNworthy of people; hence, it is due to MERCY and UNdeserved kindness... because I have exercised FAITH... IN the One who GIVE me such "information". And, finally, (3)... no one is worthy, dear one. NO ONE. Not a single human soul. Except One... and that is the One I listen to. It really is THAT simple.
Now I "don't have a CLUE" and are without understanding to an astounding level, on what MERCY and UNdeserved kindness! are, and have never shown it . . .
That you took that comment to mean you, Size, personally... given the content of this thread... is... well, interesting, dear Size. Truly.
well thanks AGuest . . . sorry to have bugged you, but thank you for condescending to reply, with your 10 years experience and all, you are no doubt "worthy" to judge these matters.
Oh, Lord... Seriously? I mean, really, seriously??
It would appear I'm as hard hearted as Jeff after all.
(Shaking head) See, again: I have never said that either you OR dear Jeff were hard-hearted. Not individually, at least. As part of Israel, however, well... Israel IS a hard-headed, hard-hearted, stiff-necked House. I know: I am Israel. Thus, I had to have MY hard-head humbled, MY hard heart softened... and MY stiff neck returned to movability.
Allah is NOT shortened form of Hallelujah. At all.
I have to disagree with you, dear EP (peace to you, as well!)... but do so by agreeing with points in your own comments. The phrase "Hallelujah"... is actually "Hallel u Jah" and means, "Praise you Jah!" It can be taken two ways: "Praise you, Jah", as in "We praise you, Jah"... or "Praise you Jah"... as in "You (people) praise Jah".
It's interesting, funny and sad when someone takes an English form of two ancient words from two different cultures, languages and alphabets and then thinks one comes from the other based on modern English forms of the words.
I disagree... and agree... dear one. The TERM "Allah", meaning "the [Highest] God"... does predate Islam; however, the NAME "Allah" was used by the sons of Ishmael and others as to false gods (including Baal). Those who USED this name, however, got it as I stated: a derivative of "Hallel u Jah". "Hallel" is an ancient Hebrew word, used today by both Jews and Muslims. Ishmael, the son of Abraham, a Hebrew, knew this term ("hallel u Jah")... and used it. As with the name "JaHVeH" among the Israelites/Jews, however, Ishmael's descendants eventually forgot the name of the True God... through lack of use as well as forming alliances with those who worshipped other gods. A large demographic of Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael. Israelites (and thus, Jews)... are the descedants of his younger brother, Isaac (who younger son, Jacob, was given the name "Israel").
Although "Allah" was a false god (or gods)... Muhammed didn't change from using that name... because he believed that although those using it were involved in false worship, it WAS the name that Ishmael called God. It was not, though. It was the title/name that Ishmael's DESCENDANTS began calling God... when, after having moved further away from the Hebrew tongue... and their own evolved... someone derived it from a fragmented writing. Because, again, it was a TERM used to denote "the [Highest] God." Since it wasn't what "ISAAC" (meaning, his descendants) called God... with whom they had had enmity for centuries... they were happy to call Him anything BUT "JaHVeH" or "JaH."
But... Muslims, Jews, and Christians ALL worship the same God... IF they worship the God "of Abraham." Which they all claim to do.
Allah pre-dates Islam and shares a cognate with ancient Hebrew.
So does "hallel u Jah," dear one.
I hope this helps and, as always, peace to you!
YOUR servant (of course!) and a slave of Christ,
SA
