An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 112)

ShadesofGrey

About Shelby revealing the correct name for the Son of God: Young Earth Science has brought me closer to God. Those that don't ascribe to YEC are no worse off or less correct than I am, and I have seen evidence of this. Yet, at times I am moved to tell others about my Young Earth science beliefs. It may be that there are others, like me, that would benefit.

Thank you PSacramento, I was hoping to hear more from you on that subject.

I am glad that this thread is where it is at the moment. Thank you Sizemik for continuing to explain your thoughts.

I feel I said too much last night. If that is the case, I sincerely apologize.

Love,

ShadesofGrey

tec

Okay, I'm really sorry to do this, but I need to comment on one thing more (probably more than that, unless this thread ends, lol). But only because I took a look at Leaving's Objectivity and Oughtness video. I stopped it right away because I immediately thought of this thread, and I really hope this helps to show what some of us have been trying to say:

This is the OP:

1- God is evil.
2- God cannot or will not hear and answer prayers.
3- An omnipotent god simply does not exist.

This is the same thing as this (albeit on the opposite end of the scale):

1 - If God does not e X ist, objective moral values and duties do not e X ist

2 - Objective moral values and duties do e X ist

3 - Therefore, God e X ists

Both ignore many things that are not taken into consideration. If you can understand why the second is inaccurate, then it is my hope that you can possibly understand why the first is also inaccurate. For the same underlying reason. Peace, Tammy

N.drew

Why do you highlight the X Tec?

tec

LOL.

My X button does not work on my keyboard (yes, still I have not replaced the keyboard, for all of you who have known this since before the summer). So we have that letter saved onto a little file, which I copy and paste. But it is a capital letter, and it comes out bold. I sometimes forget to take the bold off.

Peace,

Tammy

TheUbermensch

SOG, you realize that Young Earth Creationism can be disproved by simple Astronomy... if the world is less than 10,000 years old, we would not be able to see any stars from more than 10,000 light years away....yet most stars are over 100,000 light years away.

TheUbermensch

1 - If God does not eXist, objective moral values and duties do not eXist 2 - Objective moral values and duties do eXist 3 - Therefore, God eXists

Ahahahah... wait... what? The premise of the first statement is what exactly? Morality was given to us by an invisible creator? Where is the proof of this statement? You realize there are thousands of thousands of thousands of theses and contentions of the origination of morality?

There is a premise for Jeff's original proof, in other words there is some factual understanding that he bases the entire proof off of. The premise is that millions of children and adults die of starvation and natural disaster. Your premise is....... ?????????? So no, they are completely different.

tec

You realize there are thousands of thousands of thousands of theses and contentions of the origination of morality?

YES. I do realize that, Uber. The statement I wrote above is not my statement. It is one that is often attacked by non-theists, because it is limited. The OP is limited as well... so that is the similarity. Limited in that those points do not necessarily hang off one another.

Also, if God is not good/love based on the good/love in the world... then how is God evil based on the evil/lack of love in the world?

Peace,

Tammy

TheUbermensch

How is the OP limited? There is no plausible evidence for the statement that YOU posted, whereas the OP has factual evidence to support it's premise.... how is that limited? .... O_o

And did you just create an argument against yourself? That statement goes your direction as well. If you believe that God IS good/love based on the good/love in the world that HE supposedly created, then wouldn't the image of evil ALSO come from God?

tec

And did you just create an argument against yourself?

No. Because that isn't my argument.

That statement goes your direction as well.

See above.

If you believe that God IS good/love based on the good/love in the world that HE supposedly created, then wouldn't the image of evil ALSO come from God?

I believe God is good/love based on His IMAGE - Christ.

My hope was that if you could see fault in the first description, then you might possibly allow yourself to see the fault in the OP. Yes, there are millions suffering... but there are also millions of people who are working, giving their time and money, TO help better other people's lives... out of love, as well.

Peace,

Tammy

jay88

Yes, there are millions suffering... but there are also millions of people who are working, giving their time and money,

..........

CD at its finest!

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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