Living A Lie

by MoodyBlue 58 Replies latest jw friends

  • MoodyBlue
    MoodyBlue

    I am sick of living a lie, yet afraid to change it. Married to a man who refuses to listen, who would rather plug his ears and shout "nooooooo" is taking it's tole. I am afraid to speak my mind about my doubt, my thoughts, and what I'm learning, as I'm not ready to cross that point of no return. Where would I go? WHo would I turn to? What would i have in my life.

    The "what if's" drive me crazy, keep me up at nights. What if I'm wrong in thinking this way, and really AM being suckered by Satan. What if I'm making a mistake? What if it IS the truth and I'm too stupid to see it.

    Fact is, I don't know what this world has to offer me. Don't know what I'd do WITHOUT my husband. Cuz it's him that I live for, it's him i go to meetings for. I have lost myself in this mess of a life, and it's no one's fault but my own.

    I thought i was making the right decisions, when i chose to marry him, leave school and be a jdub. But, now, I wonder if it was only another escape.

    I know that it is all up to me. But I don't want this life, and don't want to have to make decisons for me. So instead, i sit here complaining about it, but not yet willing to change it.

    Sigh, would love to have all the answers like "God" does...

  • trevor
    trevor

    Hello Moody Blue,

    I am sorry to hear that you are in such a muddle. You cannot really make any decisions about your life until you are more sure of your beliefs. You should do some independeht research on the Watchtower Society. There are some very good books available through Amazon on the web.

    I married an eighteen year old sister when I was 26. After 4 years I told her that I could not carry on living a lie. My research had led me to believe that the JWS did not have the truth.I told her I would not stand in her way but that I was no longer a Witness. She then told me that she had never believed it and had gone along with it to marry me. Our communication has improved since! We never went to the hall again and are still married after 18 years.

    You see things have a way of working themselves out. You must be honest with yourself and patient. Real change takes time. When the time is right and you are better informed you can pass on your findings to your husband. You are in this together and must work things out together.
    You think that God has all the answers - a look around the world will show that even God's plans can go wrong. Communicate your feeling with your husband. Love can conquer all.

    Al the best

    trevor

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    MoodyBlue, your feelings and fears are totally normal. In fact, they are part and parcel of the mind control techniques used by high control groups such as the WTBTS. The intent is to keep people through fear if they can no longer be kept in the organization through belief.

    Steve Hassan, an ex-Moonie, has written several books about cult mind control techniques, and he has established a model that can be used as a guideline in determining the cult status of a group or religion. When I first saw this, I was totally shocked by how many of the issues listed were embodied in the JW's. Hopefully, it will give you a little more to think about in making your decision.

    Mind Control - The BITE Model
    From chapter two of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves *

    * © 2000 by Steven Hassan; published by Freedom of Mind Press, Somerville MA

    Destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:

    I. Behavior Control
    II. Information Control
    III. Thought Control
    IV. Emotional Control

    It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.

    I. Behavior Control

    1. Regulation of individual’s physical reality

    a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
    b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
    c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
    d. How much sleep the person is able to have
    e. Financial dependence
    f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations

    2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals

    3. Need to ask permission for major decisions

    4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors

    5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).

    5. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails

    6. Rigid rules and regulations

    7. Need for obedience and dependency

    II. Information Control

    1. Use of deception

    a. Deliberately holding back information
    b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
    c. Outright lying

    2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged

    a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
    b. Critical information
    c. Former members
    d. Keep members so busy they don’t have time to think

    3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

    a. Information is not freely accessible
    b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
    c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what

    4. Spying on other members is encouraged

    a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
    b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership

    5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda

    a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
    b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources

    6. Unethical use of confession

    a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
    b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution

    III. Thought Control

    1. Need to internalize the group’s doctrine as "Truth"

    a. Map = Reality
    b. Black and White thinking
    c. Good vs. evil
    d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)

    2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".

    3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.

    4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.

    a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
    b. Chanting
    c. Meditating
    d. Praying
    e. Speaking in "tongues"
    f. Singing or humming

    5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

    6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful

    IV. Emotional Control

    1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person’s feelings.

    2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader’s or the group’s.

    3. Excessive use of guilt

    a. Identity guilt

    1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
    2. Your family
    3. Your past
    4. Your affiliations
    5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions

    b. Social guilt
    c. Historical guilt

    4. Excessive use of fear

    a. Fear of thinking independently
    b. Fear of the "outside" world
    c. Fear of enemies
    d. Fear of losing one’s "salvation"
    e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
    f. Fear of disapproval

    5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.

    6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".

    7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader’s authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.

    a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
    b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
    c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
    d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group’s perspective, people who leave are: "weak"; "undisciplined"; "unspiritual"; "worldly"; "brainwashed by family, counselors"; seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.

  • ZazuWitts
    ZazuWitts

    Dear MoodyBlue

    Many of us here, are "living a lie" to some degree - afraid to express ourselves to jw family for fear of total alienation.

    Your situation, however, appears more critical - you are married to believing mate who refuses to hear
    any of what you are learning and saying. (Perhaps from fear, and long conditioning from the orgnization - and even from refusing to acknowledge their own personal doubts and questions.) Not knowing more about you and husband I can only offer some suggestions and opinions - not meant to be taken as answers.

    It is probably best if you don't over-whelm him with your doubts and/or questions. Take it VERY SLOWLY for your own sake if nothing else.

    It is obvious that your feelings for him run deep and true. But you also need to pay attention to your own needs - I fear that if you do not they will
    literally eat you up! So, once again, take the process at a slow, tolerable pace. You related that you go to meetings for him - maybe you could take an initial first step - such as just not
    going to "one" meeting a week. Say to him whatever you think would work best,
    but make it truthful, such as, "I am not up to going tonight/today, that's all there is to it." "I'm staying home tonight, I don't want to be around people," "I need some quiet time for myself." Do this occasionally until you get comfortable with it. Meanwhile continue to be the loving wife that I'm sure you are. Even with his busy schedule due to congregational duties, see if you and he can make some private time for yourselves - do something that would appeal to him - a museum, a walk in nature, a get-away weekend to a state lodge - whatever you can think of
    that you both would truly enjoy.

    As for yourself, MoodyBlue, all of your personal questions have understandably
    caused you great anxiety - "Where would I go, who would I turn to, what would I have in my life." You WILL find answers to these questions - but it takes time, sometimes a long, long time. Right now it is sooooo mind-boggling - we know, we know, believe me, we do.

    So, again, I can only suggest that you start my taking it a step at a time.
    I know others here will have much good advice to give you - absorb what you can to keep you going - you can always pick up more as you struggle with your personal dilemma(s) and become stronger
    in your efforts.

    As you know, we are here for you no matter how long it takes and for what ever decisions you ultimately make - we care!
    With much sincerity and compassion -
    Zazu

  • JAVA
    JAVA

    MoodyBlue (love that name):

    I don't have all the answers, but I'm good at guessing. You're at a place many on this board have been through--it's not easy! The "what ifs" can drive you crazy, if you let them. Life is full of "what ifs" and folks or groups handle it in different ways.

    The dates 1914, 1918, 1925, and 1975 never suffered from the "what ifs" because "new light" allows the Society to "tack in the wind" when they blew it. The Society denies "what ifs", covers them up, and continues on with "new light." Some folks become paralyzed with "what ifs" and remain stalled until another makes decisions for them. Others realize "what ifs" happen, make decisions based on the information they know, and go from there.

    Life goes on no matter how we work with the "what ifs" around us. However, doing nothing usually means others will decide for you. There are times in life when that's necessary. Sometimes we are at a place physically or mentally that requires others to act in our best interest, but that's the exception and not the rule.

    The decisions we made yesterday might not be the decisions we make today--that's normal. We grow, we learn new things, etc. I was amazed how smart my parents became when I got older. Little is accomplished when we beat ourselves up about decisions made when we were at another place in life. They worked then, they might not work for us today.

    The so-called world usually offers what we put into it. I can't say what life would be like without your husband, and only you can say what life is like with him. You're at a crossroads many others have experienced. I know about that intersection--it's not easy. I can't offer you my road map because our goals and journey are different.

    These rambling thoughts are only thoughts, not suggestions. This I can say--you found a group of caring people on this board who understand where you're at, and know you can make it through the "what ifs" that can make life interesting.

    JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

  • Angharad
    Angharad

    Hi MoodyBlue
    I'm sorry that you find yourself in this stuation, I can realate to it in a way, because Simon and myself went through the same problem, only it was me that would not hear anything he was saying.
    It was a really horrible time for us, because even though a lot of what Simon was telling me made sense, I also kept thinking what if he is wrong, what will everyone think of us. I give him the usual 'evil apostate trying to deceive you' lines which was what I'd been taught to do. Fingers in ears singing Lalalalala .
    But all the time little bits of what he kept telling me were starting to cause me to have my own doubts, it was just that I was to scared to admit it, to myself or to him.
    Simon was very persistant and eventually got me to listen and take it seriously, and I started doing my own reaserch.
    I'm am not suggesting that you necessarily do this, because everyone is different and you may drive him away - only you know your husband well enough to decide which approach to take. Because even though I thought I believed everything I was never really that strong in the truth.
    As ZazuWitts' say go VERY gently and subtly at first.
    It is a very hard time, because not only are you totally disillusioned by everything you are learning, you're going through it alone. I know Simon felt very frustrated because he couldn't really talk about things, even to me. It was probably one of the most difficult times for our marriage but I'm glad that he kept trying and that I eventually listened.
    Don't give up, it may take a while but it is worth it - we feel closer and happier now than we did in all our time as 'witnesses'.
    I hope everything works out for you, keep us updated and let us know if we can help in anyway - feel free to Email me privately if you want.

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Moody,

    Sorry to see your angst, but in chaos theory, a system has to go into a period of apparent dissorganization before a new pardigm is formed. You are entering the chaos zone, hang on!! There's plenty of us here to offer encouragement and nickel advice! I was thinking about how many times the Watchtower admonishes others to examine their beliefs and see if they are really bible based. Why not put a few quotes of this kind on your refrig door and when your husband goes for a snack, he will have to see that his own beliefs force him to "examine if it is true". I think it was the apostle Paul (not that I like the guy) that said we must examine ALL things to see if they are true.

    Next, with this as a back drop start compiling a list of past pronouncements from the WT and Awk for instance how many times they changed their minds on whether or not the inhabitants of Sodom and Gommorah will be resurected. At least six flip flops. Do the 1914 jig, the 1975 waltz, and of course the latest one assuring that "these matters will surely be consumated by the end of this century" tango.

    God, I wish I was in your shoes to do it all over again knowing what I know now. When I left I was as scared and uncertain as a baby fawn newly orphaned.

    Be assured, there is/are other answers to the questions in life.

    best wishes,

    carmel

  • Martini
    Martini

    Hello MoodyBlue,

    Do you like the musical band MoodyBlues? you know 'Nights in white satin'...etc.

    Excellent comments so far for you, follow them religiously- pun intended- and you will do fine. Don't let the negative side of your brain drive you crazy! Listen to all the positive thoughts your mind body and spirit are telling you - literally. Deep down you know how you feel and now it's time to be brutally honest with yourself. Just remind yourself that no matter what happens you can handle it because you ARE strong and ARE worth it.

    Everyone wonders if there is life after the WT, guess what there is a beautiful, wonderful life of opportunities, experiences and love waiting to be explored. Go for it, if that's what you really want.
    Of course alot of the WT stuff like much of the moral and ethical virtues that we have learned were not a waste of time but that we will continue to use through out our life.However for me, for my emotional,physical, mental,financial and yes spiritual self-growth it was time to leave the prison bonds of the WTS.

    With time you will find that there is much to fill the 'void' created by slowly leaving watchtower life.

    Wishing you the best.
    Martini

    P.S.
    Stick aroud and read as much as you can.

  • happytobefree
    happytobefree

    Moody,

    I can relate to what you are feeling. I had similar feeling, I was afraid of losing my family (father, mother, sister). But through therapy (4 years), I was able to learn to love myself first and then everything falls into place. I don't want to give you advice, but have you considered therapy? It's an option. But believe me it took more than just the therapy.

    I have a book that to suggest you read (it won't solve your problems, but it will help you to think). It's call Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers, PhD. It was one statement in the book that was the turning point for me. That statement was: 90% of what we worry about never happens, we create our own reality.

    And last, it may seem like everything is doom and gloom (because that how you have been conditioned to think). But believe me God want you happy and there is so much more happiness than misery in this world. After I stop my JW activity, I have learn to appreciate all the beauty in this world. Because as a JW; I would look for something miserable (rising food cost, hight crime, etc.), so I would have something to talk about in field service to the householder as well as the doom and gloom group in that broke down station wagon. But now if it's not something I have to deal with personally, I excuse myself from doom and gloom type conversations.

    Let me end, because I could go on.

    I know you will make it, you just have to take it one moment at a time. And remember you can only change yourself, not anyone else.

    Happy to be Free (Me)

  • thinkers wife
    thinkers wife

    First of all let me just say, THIS IS A WONDERFUL place. Real caring people.
    Moody Blue,
    Such a tough situation. It is hard to make recommendations based on one post. And really, as you mentioned ultimately you have to decide the best course for you. Only you are walking around in your shoes.
    You do seem to realize, and if you don't realize it now, it is O.K. to have doubts and question. That is why we have brains and intelligence. It is O.K. to use them. IMHO, when we stop thinking and questioning, we die on the inside. So don't feel guilty for thinking, it is a good thing. Change is a good thing too, under the right circumstances.
    All the advice presented here is good. Do yourself a favor and take it. It can't do you any harm. And in the long run could really benefit you.
    Take it one day at a time. Try to have good communication with your husband about things that you can communicate about openly. Discussing your doubts with him might not be a great idea right now. But you can spend time with him and build on other things. But take the others' advice and satisfy you own mind.
    One thing I learned the hard way through therapy was "Take care of yourself. You can't take care of anyone else or even love someone else healthily and properly, until you take care of yourself". This is so important. Allow yourself the time and luxury of thinking. Find out what truly satisfies you and makes you content. This may take a lot of time. I didn't have the luxury of spending that time for a very long while. Once I took the time, I was amazed where my mind took me. And it became very clear after a while what really brought me joy. Nurture your inner soul. Let it grow. Let it be free. Give it the room it needs to breathe and expand. Give your imagination free reign. It is O.K. to be who you are, even if it is only to yourself for awhile.
    I am going to stop for now, but give every suggestion on this thread serious consideration. And may all your real needs be fulfilled.
    TW

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