"Who created the intelligent creator?"

by mankkeli 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • sizemik
    And who knows if we'll ever find out the "truth"...that's the exciting part.
    Maybe we'll know someday...if we can stick around long enough that is.

    I'm with you on that score unshackled . . . I find it exciting rather than disconcerting. We don't even know to what extent death intervenes in whatever personal journey we might be on . . . but that too is exciting . . . at least while we're alive.

  • sizemik
    that we are nothing more than wave vibrations that perceive ourselves as solids (holds based on frequency) when all said and done we are basically conscious forms of energy?

    Pretty much yes . . . and this is compatible with current scientific knowledge, (albeit still very incomplete).

    The hardest part in accepting it mentally as humans, is in equating the complexities of the physical manifestation with the simplicity of it's origin. We're restricted to interpreting the physical world with similarly physical sensory organs (the five senses). Mentally based concepts derived from this information is very much a result of conscious thought which is itself a feature of, and heavily influenced by, the physical reality.

    I believe the key to understanding the physical world is to see beyond the complexity of it, in order to see the simplicity which lies beneath.

    When we begin to see ourselves as not transcendental and seperate physical entities only . . . but also as part of an inter-dependent whole, then questions as to morality and even mortality take on an equally simple, rather than complex, qualitative concept.

    Looking to remove complexity in order to understand reality is something great minds of the past (notably A Einstein) have endeavoured to do . . . and can produce some interesting results . . . conceptually that is.

  • journey-on
    WHERE did the energy come from?
    Where did consciousness come from? What are thoughts? Can thought exist outside the brain. That sounds weird, but there are studies being done that examine this very idea. Since consciousness is the mysterious unknowable (even Science admits it), perhaps that is the key. Our science is at kindergarten level....no! Pre-K level....yet we think we are sooooo intelligent. We are searching searching searching. We just have to keep on keeping on and not become so cynical or dogmatic in our stubborn adherence to Science OR God/Creator that we close our minds and hearts off to the possibilities. The answer is "out there".
  • still thinking
    still thinking

    I like your thinking journey-on.

    I am a believer that that there is always 'more than one way to skin a cat'

    I think it is more than possible that the science we go by now is just one option and goes down one path...Yes it works and we have results to prove it. But that does not mean it is the only way. Or the only correct answer or solution.

    We have one way of thinking and everything is based on that...ie gravity works this way....etc...

    What if....the opposite were true...there could be endless opportunities we are missing because we already assume we have the answers because they happen to work.

    I liked this quote I read from a surgeon..."we do the surgery....but God does the healing"

    The idea of a type of Matrix really messes with my head...but what if?..... The possibilities would be endless.

    Not matter how much we know....there is so much we don't know. How the sense of "self" came about is beyond science and matter.

  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo

    do animals fully understand humans?

    Did the egg came before the chicken?

    Can these two theories apply to explain god/s? Maybe but nobody is certain, while there are things occuring in our life that are very significant earth is not even a particle of dust on this vast array of cosmos.

  • PSacramento

    We know the universe had a beginning and we know that everthing that comes to exist has a cause so the beginning of the uhiverse has a cause.

    That cause may be God or a singularity, if singularities can exist as causes untothemselves.

    Perhaps God is indeed an intelligent "singularity", being outside the laws of THIS universe makes this as good a posibility as any.

    We may give the title "God" to this singularity that is an intelligent, eternal and involved "singularity", there is no reason to NOT consider it as a posibility.

    It would still be God as long as it shows Intelligence and a will ( and all that comes with those atributes).

    Since the notion of a cause that brings soemthing into being is only applicable to the universe we live in, there is no reason to think that a being/intelligent singularity would be "captive" to that notion and since creation denotes a "time sequence" and there was time as we understand it BEFORE creation, whatever existed before the creation of the universe has always existed.

  • journey-on
    since creation denotes a "time sequence" and there was time as we understand it BEFORE creation, whatever existed before the creation of the universe has always existed.
    Time cannot exist until there are two things, can it? Time started when the I AM came into being. When that self-awareness was born, although having the same nature as it's father (pure consciousness), a new vibration (word) was released, and through it all the rest of creation came into being.
  • PSacramento

    Sorry, that should have read " there was NO TIME as we understand it...."

  • Farkel

    :Who created the intelligent creator?"

    This one is easy. There was a woman who said a turtle was holding up the earth to keep it from falling. When asked who held up the turtle, she said "another turltle." When asked who held up THAT turtle, she said another turlle. When asked who held up THAT turtle, she said "it's turtles all the way down!"

    In other words, those types of questions are unknowable to us, unless you like the Turtle Theory.


  • journey-on
    those types of questions are unknowable to us

    I assume you mean the answers to those questions are unknowable.

    How do YOU know that? That's a rather cynical outlook, don't you think?

    We may not know the answers today, or tomorrow, or even within our generation. But, if you don't keep asking the questions, no one will look for the answers, and we will stagnate. It's the seemingly unknowable that keeps us searching for the treasure of knowledge. If we don't find the answer to that exact question, we will discover other answers to other questions along the way.

    Journey-on and on and on and on.

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