"Who created the intelligent creator?"

mankkeli

Did the complexity of life arise spontaneously, or did it require a creator?

Christians believe that a creator is essential. Scientists believe that the idea of a "creator" is pure mythology, and that the complexity arose through natural processes like evolution. Who is right?

You can actually answer this question yourself with a little logic. Here are the two options:

The complexity of life and the universe did arise completely spontaneously and without any intelligence. Nature created all the complexity we see today.
An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.

The advantage of the first option is that it is self-contained. The complexity arose spontaneously. No other explanation is required.

The problem with the second option is that it immediately creates an impossibility. If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator?" The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence. Therefore, God is impossible.

In other words, by applying logic, we can prove that God is imaginary.

botchtowersociety

Scientists believe that the idea of a "creator" is pure mythology,

No, only some of them do.

The complexity of life and the universe did arise completely spontaneously and without any intelligence. Nature created all the complexity we see today.

An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.

The Universe started out exceedingly simple, and became progressively more complex later.

The problem with the second option is that it immediately creates an impossibility. If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator?" The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence. Therefore, God is impossible.

This scenario contains a category error. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that some things belong to one category, and others to others. This affects the questions we ask.

For example, we look at an automobile and say: "who engineered it?"

We look at a watch and say "who designed it?"

These are perfectly valid questions regarding things in the category of automobiles and watches (which are things we make).

However, asking the same question doesn't apply to other things.

For example, when we see Angelina Jolie do we say "who designed her?"

When we see Barack Obama do we say "who engineered him?"

No we do not. Different categories, different questions.

God, by definition, is not the same category as natural things. He is supernatural by all theistic definitions I am aware of...and in some important strains of theistic thought, God is perfectly simple.

PSacramento

Natural laws and viewpoints are applicable to the universe as we know it, not to whatever may have been there before nor to any other universe that we don't know of.

This universe had a beginning, as did the natural laws if THIS universe, which has nothing to do what was there BEFORE this universe began.

THE GLADIATOR

By applying logic we cannot fully understand what consciousness is; whether it comes from within or without of ourselves.

So as to your question, ‘Did the complexity of life arise spontaneously, or did it require a creator?’ It is unlikely to be solved on this forum.

I have been wrong many times in my life, so I wish you luck.

PSacramento

Logic is a tricky thing, if we try hard enough we can, logically, justify doing and believing all sorts of things that are NOT good.

Heck, logically the concept of GOOD is not logical.

ldrnomo

With Christians, there is no logical conclusion because their explanation is that the intelligent creator NEVER had a beginning.

So how could an intelligent creator never have a beginning? If that creator is so complicated and everything had to be created then where did the complicated, intelgent, highly designed creator come from and if he always was but nothing just comes to be without a creator then where is the logic in this reasoning

Answer:

There is no logic in the christian reasoning

WontLeave

I have actually been pondering this very question. I believe it is possible God himself doesn't know why he exists. After all, he did name himself "I Am" and instructed others to refer to him as YHWH (basically, "He Is"). He offered no further explanation. Is there a "multiverse"? Is "Jehovah" the God of this reality, while other realities have their own Gods? Does God even know the answer to that question? We can only speculate.

Many things in physics are counter-intuitive, yet seem to be true; e.g. relative speed of light. Occam's razor and pure logic can't be applied to everything. Some things just are, despite how much they make our brains hurt.

PSacramento

Who said the creator is complicated?

And why would the creator NEED to have a beginning?

PSacramento

The very limited understanding that we have of our universe is based on our perception of THIS universal reality.

We can't apply the same understanding or perception to any universe OUTSIDE our own.

Different universes would have different "realities".

To apply the laws of nature of THIS universe to a being NOT of this universe doesn't sound very logical, does it?

THE GLADIATOR

'I believe it is possible God himself doesn't know why he exists.'

Good point WontLeave

If a god existed, before he became a creator, what was he/she/it?

Potential?

"Who created the intelligent creator?"

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