Went to my first meeting today anonymously!

by TimothyT 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blond-moment

    They reference a lot of scriptures, but they don't study them. They use them to tell you what they want you to know. There are a handful of scriptures that are used over and over and over to prove points, win arguments, "prove" they have the truth, but if you dared to study those on your own, you would find they are out of context, or mean something completely different.

    Yes JW can argue circles around bible students of other faiths, but it isn't because they are really proving anything, they are just wearing the other person down. You learn how to get and keep control of every converstation and situation, you learn how to keep up the rapid fire till you wear them down. That isn't really winning a bible debate. When the non-JW however, DOES start to get thru, does stand firm and doesn't get swept up in the rapid fire of questions and scriptures, and is able to make a true biblical point, the JW end the convo, time to move on, you abviously aren't interested in hearing the "truth"

    They spout bible study, and yeah there is a little bible in there, but what are you really studying? What is it that gets underlined? Where is it that you find the answers to the questions they ask? What do they really use to study? Try having a "bible study" with a JW without using any Watchtower literature. It won't last long.

    Actual "blible study" is frowned on. Reading the bible alone leads to spiritual darkness, to satan. Meeting in small groups to study the bible can and has led to DFing. (I personally think thats part of the reason for dropping the bookstudy) The WTS controls the info, controls what the bible says, what they want you to know.

    At first I felt the same, so they have faults, they also have all these great things about them. They do really study the bible, they do know the bible etc. I do believe the average JW is really sincere, and I have nothing bad to say about them personally. The Watchtower Society however, is another story. The longer I am awake, the more I look at it all with both eyes open, the more I research what the literature actually says vs just taking their word for it, etc etc etc the more jaded I get. It's like a beautiful peice of fruit that has worms at the pit. I don't care how pretty it looks, how nice it smells, it is rotton, and once I see that, it is no longer a beautiful piece of fruit, it's trash. (personal opinion)

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Study the Bible?

    Even my JW wife admits they study WT literature, not the Bible. She doesn't have a problem with that. I do.

  • TimothyT

    Well im quite annoyed with myself now then. I feel so confused. Iv belonged to this organisation for about 20 years and despite the negative things, i am simply trying to be the better person, put them aside, and focus on things I see which are good and desirable in the organisation. It cant all be evil can it?

    I seriously couldnt give a shi* about becoming a JW again, but i miss and CRAVE bible discussion and warm association. I know you may argue that if i was a JW i never actualy had that. I would disagree because i was often encouraged at meetings to study my bible for myself, which i did alone and with no publications. The studies about Jesus, with no bias from the WTS were good. Sometimes id have WTS-bias-free scriptural discussions with JWs which i found stimulating.

    It is undeniable though that if they dont accept me for who I am, then i certainly shouldnt be with them.

    I NEED the association and study from somewhere. Can anyone who lives in the UK give me some suggestion of any such group or church that exists who hold discussions and studies in such a way?


  • moshe

    And now you know why a horse tries to run back into his burning barn- it was always a safe place.

    Join a drum circle, if you need group comaraderie- I'll bet you will feel better.

  • punkofnice
    Do any of you still feel this? Do you still desire the spiritual push or the desire to just have nice friends?

    You aint gonna like this sorry..............

    I went to a Baptist church today and they are a zillion percent more friendly and genuine that the kingdum hells I've been to.

    They are real good friends too.

    ...........and happy!

    I'm keeping away from the Kindum Hells now that I've been researching propaganda, logical fallacies and hypnotic language!!

    Sorry Tim, I can't agree with you. Nothing personal though!

    ..............you are kidding aren't you?

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    It cant all be evil can it?

    Of course it can. The members are victims of cult mind control. Whether they think they are genuine is not the issue. We all thought we were genuine. We weren't. We were indoctrinated to behave, think, and feel a specific way and we were fed loaded words and phrases to trigger those thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.

    Returning to the K.H. you heard two hours of those trigger words. Of course you were moved by them. That's how cult mind control works.

    It isn't a flaw or a weakness to be indoctrinated, but to be truly FREE is going to take effort, conscious effort and a clear understanding of the methods of cult mind control the organization uses. You can't fight it if you don't even know it is happening.

    It appears that you may still have a view of "the world's" churches of "Christendom" that was indoctrinated into you by the Watchtower Society. To think you have to search for a church or religion that's just as spiritual as the JWs is ass-backwards. From my experience, you'd be hard pressed to find a church or religion that's LESS spiritual than the JWs bureaucratic snooze-fest indoctrination/hypnosis sessions.

    I would recommend Unitarian Universalists if you really want a religion that is tolerant of your sexuality. If you prefer to hide that part of your life, then there are any number of Christian churches you can explore.

    That said, have you explored any non-Christian religions? My personal advice would be to look eastward, but that's just an opinion.

  • WildeLover

    Hi Tim,

    I'm not in UK but in ireland. but as for going somewhere else, nothing springs to mind. the local directory might birng up the names of local churches/groups to you.

    the watchtower- spiritually stimulating too?

    really? it was a mud slinging event in my hall but not as bad as i thought it would be! eek!

    you can still study the bible on your own. maybe create a little group and all that!

    good luck


  • nugget


    I would take it slowly there is no need to rush in any particular direction and just as the witnesses have issues so too do some other churches. After all they are all made up of people and people can be idiots occasionally. It is hard after having such a rigorous routine there can be a feeling of emptiness with so much time on your hands that used to be filled but this is valuable time to find out a bit about you and what you are truly looking for. This is the best place to start any search. You have plenty of time there is no rush. I made a point of going out to gardens, parkland and into the country. Someone said you are closer to God in a garden than anywhere else on earth. It certainly helps clear the mind and calm the spirit.

    Each church varies as to what their brand of Christianity looks like and the same denomiation in alternate areas can look quite different. Perhaps you and Jack could make a point of attending a different church each Sunday talk to people about how they see God and how they explore their faith. I would also do some research into your old faith to help you get some perspective and see it warts and all. I was truly shocked to discover how different the witness viewpoint of God is from other christian faiths.

    If you ever need to talk you and Jack are welcome to call any time the kettle is usually on.

  • gubberningbody

    Tim, I can appreciate what you said.

    On the whole, I despise the controlling aspects of the organization which restricts a person's conscience as well as the failure to allow debate. It's very old-school Catholic in that regard.

    The people, on the other hand I found to be pleasant and honest. People who really wanted good things for the world as well as themselves.

    I disagree that the bible-twisting was such that it inverted the message.

    It's the message of the bible through my study over 25 years led me to conclude that the Bible is revisionist history and points to a being which simply cannot exist in the form described and be the creator of all that is.

    The issue of universal sovereignty is a flawed moral concept, poorly executed and played out, the rules of the engagement violated by any number of parties from the beginning.

    The lack of an explanation for why as creator would create at all. (actually one is given "love", but that's a logically flawed argument as well and begs the question)

    Even if a creator did exist, it calls into question its own morality. To wit ...Since this being could have created Adam and Eve with faux free will such that they imagined they had free will but in point of fact didn't, it could have easily made it such that these imagined they were designed with the capability of performing an evil, but in truth lacked that capability.

    The result would have been that they would not have sinned, but they would not have known it was out of their inability, not out of their free choice. Mankind would never have had the need for a savior, there would never have been death disease or the gamut of all evil permutations which have been visited on and by man since the beginning.

    Some have said "Oh, but God would have know!"

    To which I reply, "So what? It's all about him is it?"

    To which the JW would say "Yes."

    To which I reply..."And so how is that an act of love?"

    To which they never reply.

    Of course now considering this, we also don't know that we don't have faux free will now as it is? So we're perpetually incapable of ever knowing with certainty that this creator as described by the Bible isn't simply a highly intelligent, long-lived monster.

    If you were to create a universe, would it be a soul-devouring carnivorous zero-sum game universe like this one?

    Anyway... It was fun while the effects of the koolaid lasted. Once you become accomodated and put it all together you become a biblically knowledgeable agnostic. (unless you lack the existential awareness to realize that you can't make the ultimate affirmation that an atheist makes)

  • NewChapter

    I am so puzzled right now. Timothy this is your decsion, but I'm a bit floored. You crave bible discussion. You probably have hundreds of churches in easy driving distance and even more bible studies and extra church activities. Why would anyone want to associate with a group that would reject and hate them if the group knew the true nature of that person?

    Timothy, you need to think about this. Why a kingdom hall? The people that threw you out like garbage? Why would you EVER turn to them for bible discussion?

    It cant all be evil can it?

    Does it need to be? This is an odd question. It suggests black and white thinking. Is anything all evil or all good? A serial killer may volunteer at a food bank, rescue kittens and deliver meals on wheels. The only thing is he has a pile of dead bodies accumulating in his basement. Would you even THINK of asking such a question? But since you did, I think I'd like to answer it. They are evil enough for me to want to stay away forever. They are evil enough to break up families and let children die. They are evil enough to separage parents from children, grandparents from grandchildren and best friends from each other. They are evil enough to rob the promising futures of their young people pressuring them to sell magazines instead. They have pretty smiles. They work hard. They want to please their god. Does this lessen the evil they do every day? In my opinion--NO.

    I wish you well Timothy, I really do. That's how I'm different than they are. They wish you would be filled with self loathing and hate. They wish you would step into the closet and throw away the key. They wish you would be overcome with guilt every day of your life. You are gay. They will NEVER accept that. And they will only blame you. You will never be able to reason with them. You will never change this. Unless you are willing to change yourself, their love is superficial at best. CAN you change yourself? I don't think so---but they do.


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