by redhare67 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • zoiks

    did not jesus said" that the gates of hades or hell will not prevail against it"

    Please provide an original manuscript proving that Jesus said this. I'll give you a hint: there aren't any. As Terry pointed out, our 'faith' rests on hearsay.

    lets look at the Bible, how did the bible survive to this day, did it not suffer presecution? Did not god preserve it

    The bible has been preserved by history bears out. Very brave people, some of whom died in order to preserve it.

    Can you do more research?

    The answers are there, if you are willing to put in the time and effort. Are you? I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I wonder how sincere you are in searching for answers. Suggesting that Terry do more research for you is just a wee bit tacky, don't you think? Unless you're just asking rhetorical questions in order to prove some point...

  • Terry

    lets look at the Bible, how did the bible survive to this day

    "Survive" ??

    "Faith follows the the thing HEARD."

    Word of mouth. In the days of the Apostles.

    You heard somebody TELL you a story and you accepted it or you didn't.

    The standard of belief was--what? CALLOWNESS.

    Today, we hold a Bible in our hand and accept it is PRESERVED AUTHENTIC TRANSMISSION OF ACCURATE DATA.

    The standard of belief this is true is--what? More callowness OR disengenuousness?

    HOW CAN WE PROVE what we are being told is "true" if we CANNOT COMPARE original writings (totally missing!) with later copies OF copies??

    Evidence in a Court of Law must be BEST EVIDENCE using a chain of custody or provenance.

    We cannot base our entire bivalent integrity of belief upon UNverifiable assertions and remain intellectually honest, rational thinkers.

  • wobble

    With the greatest respect to you and your questions and your position, dear Redhair67, you ask Terry, and by inference, others of us who have long been on this board, and long left the blinkered and uneducated world of the WT, to do more research !

    As Terry has pointed out, you are starting from a wrong premise. You assume that all you have been told is true, that Jesus and the Apostles established a true church, founded on the teachings of Jesus as found in the N.T

    The problem is that there is no solid proof that "Jesus" as presented in the writings of Paul and later the Gospels ever existed.

    And as Terry says, the provenance of the Gospels and other writings about Jesus is just non-existent. They are doubtfull tracts written with an agenda, not history, prophecy, or fact.

    I respectfully suggest that it is you who needs to do research, and if you can prove your contentions, that Jesus existed, and that he established a true church, then come back and show us the proof.

    Love and Peace to you !

  • wantingtruth

    If the true church survived and is with us today, where do the jehovah s witness organisation stand?

    -->> outside

  • shechaiyah

    I don't believe, now that we're down to the wire [Armageddon itself] that there is any "true" Church surviving.

    Isn't that what Revelation means when it says--Rev 6:10-11

    Revelation 6:10-11 New International Version (NIV)

    10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

    11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, [a] were killed just as they had been.

    Sorry about the version. It's what came up first.

    If we are "in covenant" with God, and busy telling HIS Truth, we are victims of pogroms. We are suppressed, oppressed and having a hard time.

    I don't know a single church that ALLOWS the Truth to be told, do you? Not one.

    And the TRUTH--to me--is, Accountability for our behavior is a cosmic Law. That's all. How we treat people is THE COSMIC ISSUE.

    It doesn't matter, what we believe, what we think, what we wish, or what we know. What matter is, how we behave toward others.

    And that's my whole point. I want to be friends, not enemies. And I'm not planning to control anybody here.


  • isojourn

    'GOD' is a big nerd and we're one of his favorite RPG's.

  • jookbeard

    there aren't answers Red, it's all BS!

  • jwfacts

    the true church had to survive, there must be a group of people today

    If you think about it, the answer to that question has huge implications to your belief system. The fact is that only Catholics and Orthodox can trace a line somewhat back to the early Christian church, and their history of attrocities shows they are not "the true church". There are no other religions that can trace a line, and there are no religions living and believing the same as first century christians.

    That should alert you that the concept of a "true church" is unfounded. The religion a person belongs has nothing to do with truth, and a lot to do with the location of a person's birth.

  • dm6

    what terry said.

    The pope benedict sixteenth, and all otther popes for the catholic church dates right back to the days of saint peter, whom was the first appointed pope by Jesus Christ.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Every born again person is part of the body of Christ, regardless of where he/she worships in Spirit and Truth.

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