Stop making the BINARY error of Jehovah's Witness theology

by Terry 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AllTimeJeff

    Hi Billen76.

    Interesting response. I would argue that anyone who masters how to win an argument would then need only an argument to win.

    JW's could teach whatever they want, with pre printed questions and pre printed answers. They could teach that the sky will be purple in the new system if the word for "purple" could be mangled from the original greek in Revelation.

    In business, I have learned that people who have talent, who are good, will be a general success in whatever they do.

    JW's have evolved into professional teachers of nonsense. That nonsense could be ________________ (fill in the blank)

    I think it more educational to pay attention to the methods instead of the teachings, because frankly, JW's aren't the only ones who behave as Terry describes. They are just the group we all know best that behaves in this manner.

    JW's, the ultimate religious ponzi scheme. Better to recognize the religious ponzi scheme so as not to be fooled in the future imo.

  • Perry
    If every time we try to rest in our feelings we encounter a highly unpleasant all dominating nauseating fear, how can we enjoy?

    Practical application: Just don't do it. Don't rest in YOUR feelings.

  • thetrueone

    How can you get people to accept only two choices when it is so apparent that many more alternatives exist? Simple. You control the conversation, and most importantly, you control the questions.

    When you control what questions are asked, you control the answers too

    Good point AllTimeJeff

    This can easily be construed as mind manipulation or brainwashing, which intensionally avoids or dissuades aspects of critical thinking.

  • thetrueone

    Why build your life and your future and your values on what may be unfounded conjecture just because it is "pretty"?

    Well said Terry

  • Billen76

    Hi AllTimeJeff

    " I would argue that anyone who masters how to win an argument would then need only an argument to win."

    I would argue, that this is merely an illusion. Most do not accept an argument, because of the master of arguments. One usually accepts the argument, because the master of argument are able to phrase a line of argumentation that justify what we "want" to hear. (In most JW cases, what is "safe" to hear) The rest is just a pretend.

    In the eternal war between instinct and theory, we usually find a resting place where the noice seems the lowest.

    Not all religions deals with the same theories. All the theories thoughl deals with our survival instinct. Most seek to calm the instinctal fear of death in order to make room for another focus. A buddhist for pure intellectualism, a christian for practical life and community. These are community building religions.

    What Jehovahs Witnesses does is the exact opposite. As Terry describes, JW's are kept on their toes by constant remindal of them "living on the edge". One step wrong and it might cost your life. A constant feed of images and "parallels" that tells about the grim fortune bestoved on those rejecting "the Truth" and failing in obediance. It is all survival, all the time. Thats what our loved ones fear. It's instinct, not theory, after a prolonged period of exposure.

    That is why I accept the label "death cult" to be placed on JW. They do not calm the fear of death. They empowers it, lives in it, "thrives" in it. Some even get high on it! Like free climbers hanging on a cliff wall, they get high on the adrenaline it gives, when they sneak in to their grannies 90 years birthday. :) The sheer danger of it while risking their lifes handing over the gift, conquering yet another wallside of theoretical danger.

    It is NOT the same as mainstream christianity. Both are of the dreamworld, yes, but one calms the survival instinct, the other heavily exploits the survival instinct and keeps its members on the edge.

  • Terry

    Terry, you are wrong in several ways that come readily to mind. First, you'd have to be God yourself in order to negate what God says is Just, him being the ultimate standard of JUSTICE.

    Yes, but, why establish your STANDARD...enforce that standard without exception and then, suddenly, throw up your hands and say: "Only kidding!"

    Second, the payment model for crimes isn't unheard of in our justice system. Your own mother tried to take your punishment for you when you went to prison for not accepting alternate military service. This is a characteristic of a loving parent, which God is and without doubt you mom was as well.

    Comparing human justic to Perfect Divine justice doesn't wash. My mother thought it was UNjust for a devout religious boy (I was 20) to go to prison. Her offer was a response to the INJUSTICE. Presumably, Jehovah did not suddenly view HIS OWN justice as UNjust?

    Thirdly, the terms of the New Testament Contract require the DEATH of BOTH PARTIES.

    Silly and wrong-headed! DEATH cancels all contracts. All values begin and end with LIFE not death.

    Believers seal their end of the bargain when they die to themselves, give up their rights to themselves and sincerely can pray to God, "Do with me as you wish". When they FINALLY experience the separation of the soul from the body, they do indeed die. I have explained this to you over and over, yet you continue mischaracterizations of the Atonement.

    Platonic greek "soul" mythology crept in to Judaism and tainted their soul-is-body theology. Jews believed life is precious because it ends. World Repair is the object of our lives. Just because you repeat your assertions does not make them any more credible.

    The substitutionary atonement is not a free for all. It is very costly. It is a blood covenant to the death. It is designed so that "whosoever" can avoid JUDGMENT not the penalty for sin. Get it?

    When you go to court and pay a fine instead of jail time either/both ARE a JUDGEMENT. You avoid nothing. The way the law is written determines the alternatives. In Jehovah's law given to Israel the penalty for sin is death. Where is the "substitute a perfect man and you get off free" clause???

    Each human since Adam has created their own SIN DEBT. Jews had rituals of atonement from year to year. Gentiles did what was right in their own eyes.

    No offer of life EVERLASTING had ever been extended to humanity since Eden as part of a JUST LAW. Blessings were for future generations of descendants, not the principle founder of a family line.

  • Terry

    How can you answer the questions correctly when you didn't read and memorize the supplied answers first???

    Either/or. Binary. The control mechanism for JW's is to control the questions. Because at that point, you control the answers.

    And then you really do have a bunch of sheep, nodding their heads, forgetting that the answers were never their own, and now, they have been tricked into not caring about where the answer comes from anymore.

    Sort of sick isn't it?

    Yes! Control of what questions are asked short-circuits OUR OWN thinking. It slips you into a stimulus-response pattern as you have astutely pointed out.

  • Terry

    A mother would instinctly try to save her child from danger. If she instinctly feels that if the child had a blood transfusion its life would be endangered, she would fight against it.

    In reality most JW's exists in a highly tense field between the "dreamworld" reality and the "real world" reality. In the above example both are a choice of survival, but with two directly opposite "right" choices. Most JW parents will seek a secret compromise, that would lie in the least tense part of the field, which means that they let the doctors do what they must unspoken and without any mention of it in the journal.

    JW's have their loyalties LEVERAGED by a one-two combination of peer pressure and Divine disapproval.

    In mainstream christian churches you might compromise your christian principles to save a life and be pitied and forgiven. But, in Jehovah-land you

    are viewed as a vile traitor, weak, unworthy and ostracized from the congregation which=death at Armageddon.

    Don't underestimate the LEVERAGING. The entire social support system (family, friends, congregation) are used against you!

  • OnTheWayOut

    Terry, did you arrange for Perry to prove your point in this thread? I mean, you couldn't ask for better responses to demonstrate people who continue to make the binary error.

  • Terry

    It lies deep within us, even after we have left JW and will never truly disapear. It is why we feared the elders and shunned knowledge, indulging ourselves into the safer art of analysis rather than "knowing" ourselves. If love is connected to and countered by survival instinct which is the strongest

    Our strongest emotions follow our strongest values. When we say we "love" we are following what we value as the highest possible.

    Making a "choice" involves invoking and applying values. The JW religion leverages our values from the core foundational concepts upward.

    There is, therefore, no difference between THIS choice and THAT choice. Why? Because ALL avenues are "informed" by Theocratic indoctrination!

    We cannot actually "see" alternatives AS alternatives. Why? It is all EITHER Black OR White.

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