The New World Translation Quote from an Elder

by howdidtihappen 96 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • minimus

    The NWT is the Yugo of Bibles.

  • Giordano

    Howdidithappen? Love bombing. Warm strokes from nice folks. You opened yourself up and they walked in. It's like being slightly possessed or beguiled. You've got Ozzy and Harriett types studying with you and it's starting to make your skin crawl.

    The thing that you need to know is that they are the ones that need You....... to validate their delusions. When you stop doing that they really can't handle the friendship part of your relationship.

    But you need to keep in mind what they actually believe and teach......... that god loves us so much that he/she intends to violently kill just about everyone on this planet in the near future. Does that sound logical or reasonable to you? Does it matter which bible is quoted which scripture is cherry picked?

    Being a JW means you are a believer in a19th century mind set trying to be relevant in the 21st century, where no science exists if it contradicts the Bible and no other religion is acceptable.

    They are a complete waste of time.

  • Atlantis

    The New World Translation

    What the Scholars Really Said


  • jookbeard

    I'd say it is a Proton/Yugo/Pinto/Trabant/Skoda of translations

  • Wonderment


    I have been numerous times to this site as a reference source of opinions. Though the site has some value, the problem with this one, as is true of other similar sites, is that it distorts many facts.

    The author is bent on portraying the NWT as a piece of crap, one that has no support of scholars, and that the WT has quoted them all wrong, which is not true. A common mistake is one of belittling the scholars who say something positive of the NWT. They leave many gaps, and add material unrelated to the context. If you think the WT has this problem, it is worse with the authors of these tendentious websites.

    I make an effort to check these references, and I am appaled by the dishonesty of some of these comments. It is not easy to find neutral sources, I admit. We are all victims of human bias to some extent.

    A case in point is the commentary on Jason BeDuhn mentioned earlier. He says of BeDuhn: "This is not to say that BeDuhn is to be dismissed lightly. He is certainly knowledgeable in Greek, and says that he is doing work on untranslated Greek texts." Then he goes on to take issue of BeDuhn saying that he is a "non-theologian." He questions BeDuhn's statement about not knowing Murray J. Harris, another scholar, as if that was necessary to make an asessment of the NWT. BeDuhn has stated he is aware of those scholars attacking the NWT, including Harris. The author of the site again takes issue of the word "divine" as used by BeDuhn.

    The thing is, that BeDuhn's book is one of the clearest expositions on the subject of bible versions available, and the author doesn't like BeDuhn's conclusions. His work on the subject, is in my opinion superior to other books before him. But, somehow he finds it necessary to downplay his contribution to the scholarly community.

    The same can be said of his assesment of German scholars cited by the WT. The fact is those German scholars are known the world over in academia, because their names appear in reference books used by Catholics and Protestants alike.

    For example, look at the names of contributors to the highly respected work, The New International of New Testament Theology (3 Vols.), and other German bible works. You will find names in them such as Johannes Schneider, Hans-Jurgen Becker, Siegfried Schulz and many others. The same can be said of the German Greek-English Lexicon of Walter Bauer, translated into English by Arndt and Gingrich and revised by Frederick Danker. I would not try to belittle those German authors just to prove the WT is wrong. Why? Simply because, no one seems to bother to attack their personal views or flaws when they agree with their religious agenda.

    Another example: "Dr. Danker's estimation that the NWT Old Testament should not be "snubbed" is not shared by other scholars. H. H. Rowley, an eminent Old Testament scholar from England, wrote regarding the first volume of the New World Translation Of The Hebrew Scriptures."

    Unbelievable! The author of this site claims H.H. Rowley is "eminent." Yet, he downplays Dr. Frederick W. Danker who also is "eminent," only because Danker said ‘the NWT should not be snubbed.’ See above for the contribution he made to the Greek-English Lexicon most used today in academia. Besides, he proudly quotes Rowley who attacks the NWT language, when Rowley was criticizing literal translations as a whole, placing the NWT as a shining example of wooden literalism.

    We need to be careful before we used these authorities out of context. Anyone with dubious intent can summarize faults out of every scholar out there at whim.

    The WTS has problems. We all agree with that. Everyone else is trying to determine "truth" within their limited abilities.

    Frederick W. Danker well said: The 'orthodox' do not possess all the truth, yet one does well 'to test the spirits.' (Multipurpose Tools for Bible Study, 1993. Augsburg Fortress, Minneapolis, MN, p. 194)

  • Atlantis

    Dr. Julius R. Mantey said all that needed to be said!


  • howdidtihappen

    I know it's not very Christian of me but after reading this thread (and thanks everyone for the pictures... i was literally gasping for air at some, while laughing) I want to punch that elder in the face. To think i almost threw away my King James Bible when I got home because, well, who needs it? I guess thats what they're brainwashing people to believe. Now I just want to rip the NWT to shreds. God hears prayers, alright, for the mere fact I found this website.

    Thanks again, it's more information than i expected and I appreciate it all. Even more so because I wanted that smug elder to be wrong more than anything else.

  • Wonderment

    Atlantis said after providing the link in a former post: "Dr. Julius R. Mantey said all that needed to be said!"

    Dr. Julius R. Mantey has provided for us a very useful Greek Grammar. It is one of my favorites. Unfortunately, though still in use today, it has been largely replaced by other recent Grammars. It is a model of simplicity, brevity, and rounds up what others before him said on the subject of grammar in a way the layman could understand. I really like it, and recommend it.

    However, as a religious person Julius Mantey was like many Witnesses, stuck in a specific mindset. He wasn't flexible. It was either Day or Night, Black or White, Evangelical or Hell for anyone not holding on to mainstream tradition. Both of these men were professors of New Testament Interpretation (Baptist Theological Seminaries, one in Texas and the other in Chicago) One of these men (Julius) got together with "Cult Expert" Walter Martin (another Baptist) and both determined that JWs were a threat to standard religion. They went on to produce the greatest denunciation published in the last 60 years or so. There is no record of H.E. Dana following in their footsteps, at least to the same degree of intent.

    Most of the WT criticisms published today and directed at the WT have been taken from their book... of disparaging and belittling the WT organization at all costs. A lot of other anti-WTS books are a rehash of their statements. The problem is that a lot of their statements are wrong, or off the mark. They are guilty of the same thing they accuse the WT of... of quoting out of context, not providing the full picture, and distorting anything they could - to reach their goal of destruction. Their published info is a mixture of half-truths and bad will.

    I am surprised at the number of takers of this info as reliable, just because these men hold college degrees. I am equally surprised at the number of JWs who day after day insist that their religion is the way to God, while leaving Christ at the curb (roadside), while the "faithful and discreet slave," yes, a "slave" who gets more glory and honor than Christ. Repulsive indeed!

    If I am permitted, I may point out some of these distortions in time. For now, let me just state that Julius R. Mantey writing a letter of repudiation to the WTS, and claiming they have been endlessly misquoted, does not prove he was right. I have examined the evidence, and I have concluded that Mantey was only partially right... that the WT was not explicit in their quote of their publication. "Misleading"? Even that is arguable. The WT Society did not misquote their work, but they did not disclose that their interpretation was one that would be unwelcomed by Protestant evangelicals. The WTS hinted that this Grammar was on their side, when that was not the case. I am confident that some will argue with my conclusion, but Dana and Mantey produced material that made clear one thing. That John 1:1 should be translated in a way that brings out the character or quality of the Word, Jesus Christ, that is... "the word was deity, not all of God."

  • Atlantis

    This statement above sums it up pretty well!

    "I know it's not very Christian of me but after reading this thread (and thanks everyone for the pictures... i was literally gasping for air at some, while laughing) I want to punch that elder in the face. To think i almost threw away my King James Bible when I got home because, well, who needs it? I guess thats what they're brainwashing people to believe. Now I just want to rip the NWT to shreds. God hears prayers, alright, for the mere fact I found this website."

    Watchtower leadership has already admitted in court under oath before God and man, that they publish "false prophecies" and force Jehovah's Witnesses to accept these false prophecies or the JW will be disfellowshipped. What kind of Bible comes from false prophets? You decide!


  • Atlantis

    HAYDEN C COVINGTON - Former Lawyer for the Watchtower Society is under cross-examination and his answers are in red.

    Q. Back to the point now, a false prophecy was promulgated? A. I agree to that.Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's witnesses?

    That is correct.Q. If a member of Jehovah's witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong, and said so, would he be disfellowshipped?

    Yes, if he said so, and kept on persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous, and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across, then there is a disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching ...... Our purpose is to have unity.

    The entire Douglas Walsh court transcript can be downloaded free here. Walsh Trial N.

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