Is it ethical to make rich pay more taxes?

by Lore 98 Replies latest jw friends

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub
    Is it ethical for the bottom 50% or so of society to be required to pay NO TAXES?

    James_Woods ....

    You've been inhaling too much smoke from the right wing loons.

    I am not going to hijack this thread but will start another. However, a quick computation for a couple earning $50,000 total ($25,000 each, about $12 per hour) pays 21% combined federal taxes. Forget the "rates" or whatever, just add the two federal taxes on earning together (income and payroll) and divide it by the gross income ... THAT IS HOW TO PROPERLY CALCULATE THE TAX PERCENTAGE.

    In other words, a couple working at McDonalds earning $12 per hour each will pay $21 of every $100 they earn taken in federal tax.

    Please don't say the "poor" don't pay taxes.

    Rub a Dub

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Why you can't provide evidence yourself while calling others liars and claiming they don't do their research is beyond me.

    Please. I simply stated a well known fact. The reason it is so well known is because of quotes like the one you provided. It's nice you provided it, but don't try to spank me for not - I was being honest in the first place; and as mentioned it's a known and accepted fact. (in spite of BTS continued dishonesty wrt Smith's views).

    And I called BTS a liar because, well, he's lying. A system in which the rich pay more taxes (than in simple percentage of wealth or income terms) is a progressive tax system. Adam Smith advocated for this, and BTS is a lying when he obfuscates otherwise.

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety

    I have already demonstrated that Smith favored a proportional tax system, not a progressive one. It is in Smith's own words and SixOfNine does not have a leg to stand on.

    HOWEVER.

    I see SixOfNine went back and edited his first page post with quotes after he was called out for producing nothing.

    Here is one of them:

    "The rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"<109>

    Full context and notice how SixOfNines dishonest truncation changes the sense of it:

    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"

    Notice how Smith thought that "perhaps" it would "not be unreasonable" to institute some sort of a luxury tax.

    Unlike his other statements about proportional taxation, Smith is far more tentative here. This is not a positive assertion on Smith's part, in contrast to his other statements. And either way, it is not truly progressive, since it is proportional on the house-rent. This is essentially a luxury tax on housing, not an income tax.

    Around here, with a homestead exemption sufficiently large, less wealthy owners of small homes may pay no property tax at all. Above the threshold, although the exemption still applies, a percentage based property tax rises proportionally with the value of the home. This is not a progressive tax, since everyone gets the exemption.

    BTS

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Rub a Dub, I was obviously speaking about the federal income tax schedule.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    I see SixOfNine went back and edited his first page post with quotes after he was called out for producing nothing.

    Now see, you're even lying about that. I did no such editing.

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety

    A system in which the rich pay more taxes (than in simple percentage of wealth or income terms) is a progressive tax system.

    "A progressive tax is a tax by which the tax rate increases as the taxable base amount increases."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

    Smith never advocated this.

    Who is the liar here?

    By the way, from that link, the OECD found the US to have the most progressive tax system out of any OECD country.

    BTS

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety

    Now see, you're even lying about that. I did no such editing.

    Oh screw you, I saw it the first time on page 1, and saw no Adam Smith quotes.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Fu-k, I am agreeing with 69

    Hah! Just chalk it up to even a broken satanic child-of-hell timeclock being right twice a day

  • TheClarinetist
    TheClarinetist
    a couple earning $50,000 total ($25,000 each, about $12 per hour) pays 21% combined federal taxes.

    A couple earning $50,000 total is not poor. That is above the median household income and almost twice that poverty level for a family of 4. Not saying I disagree with your statement... Just that your numbers don't quite work...

    On the other hand: I have an income of around $9000 a year (which I believe is under the poverty threshold... couldn't find it for a single person. If it's not, it darn well should be... >_<) and, after my refund at the end of the year, I will be paying about 5% in taxes, though only social security and medicare.

    EDIT: And on Adam Smith - I don't even know who he is, but neither of you have proved your point. His statement was generic enough to work with either tax system... Though from the wording, I would side with the progressive tax.

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety
    James_Woods ....
    You've been inhaling too much smoke from the right wing loons.
    I am not going to hijack this thread but will start another. However, a quick computation for a couple earning $50,000 total ($25,000 each, about $12 per hour) pays 21% combined federal taxes. Forget the "rates" or whatever, just add the two federal taxes on earning together (income and payroll) and divide it by the gross income ... THAT IS HOW TO PROPERLY CALCULATE THE TAX PERCENTAGE.
    In other words, a couple working at McDonalds earning $12 per hour each will pay $21 of every $100 they earn taken in federal tax.
    Please don't say the "poor" don't pay taxes.
    Rub a Dub

    False. Below a certain income, there is no net Federal income tax. When wage income is low enough, there is even a credit--a subsidy. That group accounts for nearly half of the country.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/28/46-percent-of-americans-e_n_886293.html

    Actually, I am going by old data. That number is now over 50%:

    http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/Over-Half-Households-Paid-No-Income-Taxes-58240-1.html

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