DEAR RICH FOLKS: Get Ready For A (Tax) Revolution... (page 8)

sammielee24

Cheech - I guess your kids would do alright if your business was worth 2 mil......sammies

Estate Tax

The Estate Tax is a tax on your right to transfer property at your death. It consists of an accounting of everything you own or have certain interests in at the date of death (Refer to Form 706 (PDF)). The fair market value of these items is used, not necessarily what you paid for them or what their values were when you acquired them. The total of all of these items is your "Gross Estate." The includible property may consist of cash and securities, real estate, insurance, trusts, annuities, business interests and other assets.

Once you have accounted for the Gross Estate, certain deductions (and in special circumstances, reductions to value) are allowed in arriving at your "Taxable Estate." These deductions may include mortgages and other debts, estate administration expenses, property that passes to surviving spouses and qualified charities. The value of some operating business interests or farms may be reduced for estates that qualify.

After the net amount is computed, the value of lifetime taxable gifts (beginning with gifts made in 1977) is added to this number and the tax is computed. The tax is then reduced by the available unified credit. Presently, the amount of this credit reduces the computed tax so that only total taxable estates and lifetime gifts that exceed $1,000,000 will actually have to pay tax. In its current form, the estate tax only affects the wealthiest 2 percent of all Americans.

Most relatively simple estates (cash, publicly traded securities, small amounts of other easily valued assets, and no special deductions or elections, or jointly held property) do not require the filing of an estate tax return. A filing is required for estates with combined gross assets and prior taxable gifts exceeding $1,500,000 in 2004 - 2005; $2,000,000 in 2006 - 2008; $3,500,000 for decedents dying in 2009; and $5,000,000 or more for decedent's dying in 2010 or later (note: there are special rules for decedents dying in 2010

botchtowersociety

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certainpoint, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to J. Madison, 1785..

Here Jefferson is writing about the feudal holdings of a landed nobility. Hint, it isn't the USA. Context.

"What more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens--a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned."

Berengaria seems to misunderstand this quote. It argues the opposite of her views.

There were no income taxes in Jefferson's day. There were consumption taxes, especially on imported goods. This is a much better tax than an income tax.

Jefferson opposed a tax on persons, which, in effect is what an income tax is.

Spirit of the Laws,

We had a thriving middle class when taxes on the top were 70-90%.

Effective rates on the top have never been 70-90% in this country. Ever. (those may have been the statutory rates, but hardly anyone paid them, including millionaires, the effective rates were close to those paid under Bush or Clinton).

Also, regardless what the marginal rates may have been, the total income tax collected has always hovered around 19% (reference Hauser's rule), so history does not show that higher marginal rates lead to higher collections.

botchtowersociety

(don't forget to remember how many farmers are in the same situation)

It forces the liquidation of the farm in many cases. The big agribusinesses love the death tax. They don't deal with it, since corporations are immortal. They can swoop in and pick up the small farms when the owner dies. This happens in other types of family owned businesses as well.

botchtowersociety

How do I owe society for my success?

When you start with the wrong concepts you get to the wrong conclusions.

What are debts owed society?

Well, what is society? Can you weigh it? Measure it? Can you even touch it or point at it and say "there it is, look, that is society."

"Society" is in the same category of concepts as "God". And some people worship it as such.

But there is no such thing as society. It is a meaningless word.

All there is, is individuals.

You cannot get wealthy alone, that is true. You must cooperate with other individuals in some way to prosper.

"Society" is gobbledygook. You cannot owe something to such a concept. It is a fiction.

You do not pay society when you pay your workers. You are paying individuals in exchange for a service. They in turn, pay others in other exchanges.

You do not pay society when you pay your taxes. You are paying protection money so that a group of gangsters will not throw you in a dungeon, or shoot you dead for resisting.

Someone tell Warren Buffet's fluffer that it is not "self evident."

darthfader

6of9, I get what you are saying about my comments.. But I was originally concerned with the arguments that NC and Beks made about "No one gets there alone". Specifically NC said: "Darth you did pay taxes for infrastructure and roads, but you didn't build them alone. "

I read that as even though I paid my fair share in taxes, since I didn't build the road and it was done by other people, I "owed" some debt to society above and beyond my taxes.

If that is not what was meant, then I apologize for grabbing the wrong conclusion.

cheers

NewChapter

DF I don't think you owe some debt. I'm just saying that if this country falls down around us, your opportunity to get rich will fall with it. Government can't be run like a business, it's job is not to make profit. I want a government that takes care of infrastructure and defense, but also the weaker among us. Others want a governement that does as little as possible and feel no need to help the weak. It may just be an ideological difference. I have been strong with a great career, and I paid accordingly. Then I got weak with insurmountable medical bills and a reduced income. When I was strong, I didn't want to support a government that offered no safety net for the weak, and now that I'm weak, of course, I don't want that either.

And I still insist that we don't get rich alone.

DaCheech

you want my kids to pay how much tax on that "hand-down"?

this is my question, and it fits well with the topic of a tax revolution against the "rich"

so, don't quote me the law, tell me what these revolution people want from us?

NewChapter

I was just pointing out that 2 million would not be taxed. I don't think even 3.5 million would be taxed.

Perhaps you could tell me: What do the rich want from us? Those in the top earning brackets have incomes that have grown remarkably. The rest of our lines are pretty much flat. Could this game be rigged?

NC

Berengaria

Darth the point was that progressive taxes make sense. Period.

Cheech

(don't forget to remember how many farmers are in the same situation)

Not very many.

Here Jefferson is writing about the feudal holdings of a landed nobility. Hint, it isn't the USA. Context.

Jefferson was strolling in France, musing to his pal about how our young country might avoid the inequality he was observing.

"What more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens--a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801.
Berengaria seems to misunderstand this quote. It argues the opposite of her views.
No it doesn't, and I understand perfectly. I said "some of my favorite quotes". This one illustrates the need for regulations. This with a host of other writings by Jefferson make it clear he had no love for corporations. Not to mention, that capitalists do not labor.
Another of my favorite quotes makes it clear I understand that taxing consumption was the favored way to fund the government. But this is actually about tariffs. Which I happen to advocate. They were the primary source of revenue for many years.
"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." --Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811.
It's another example of Jeffersons inclination toward a tax that puts the burden on the rich.

darthfader

NC, Thanks for the clarification!

Cheers

DEAR RICH FOLKS: Get Ready For A (Tax) Revolution...

Estate Tax

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