Elders came to visit...

by pubtruth 35 Replies latest jw experiences

  • willyloman

    Good advice here. Listen to it carefully and go with your instincts. One word of caution: do not send the elders, or anyone, a letter expressing your deepest feelings. You will not sway them. It will be used against you. Sounds like you wrote a letter to yourself and decided not to send it. That's fine, but no make that decision irrevocable - tell yourself there are no circumstances under which you will ever show that letter to anyone connected with the organization.

    I like the advice you got along these lines: You owe them nothing, don't give them any power over you, be polite and cordial and just say you are working these issues out and you will call on them for guidance if and when you feel the need to do so (but not before). As you get stronger, believe me you will never feel the need to call on them.

    Your conduct in this trial, and it is a trial for you, could someday impact your mother in a good way; you never know. Be strong.

    Finally, let me pass onto you what I learned in my planned exit from the JWs after nearly 30 years (more than 20 as an elder):

    Once you learn that the JW "Truth" is not the truth, you have a crisis of conscience. You either have to act on it or stifle it and go on living a lie. If you follow your conscience and walk away, you forever hold the moral high ground. That means you are morally superior to those who know what you know but do not follow their own consciences and leave. And this especially includes the elders, whose job it is to enforce your compliance with dub-think. They will never have your best interests at heart because they are trained to ignore and denigrate your ever increasing pangs of conscience.

    When they talk down to you it's because you hold the moral high ground. As the morally superior person in the discussion, you are able to see that and simply show your inner strength and be done with them. Do not let them set your agenda for you.

  • pubtruth

    An update

    I havent answered any calls from them. My mother went to hall today and said what I told her to tell the elders "I don't want them to visit me again, I dont want to talk to them" Elders simply said "Well. Not much we can do about that. Maybe he'll react in time.." I already have, reacted to the lie I've been living in for nearly 21 years of life. The letter I have decided to keep mines forever, I concluded it will be of no use.

    Here's a tidbit of what happened on Friday with her.. She came into my room and said somethingn along the lines of "I'm alone." I said "No you're not, you have me, you have my brothers, you have a family." "Will you pass?" "Pass where?" "To Paradise?" I lost it at "Paradise".. Being an impulsive individual, knowing all the lies, I jerked away "Go away, now. GO!".. She left murmuring something. She came later telling me dinner was ready.. "What's the point? I'm going to die right? Better starve myself." (I didnt actually mean this, I did it just to try and get her to react) She tilted her head. Getting sad. "Mom, you don't tell a son that sort of thing. You don't know if you yourself will pass either, or if it just won't happen! NEVER SAY THAT AGAIN! No one knows the future, you're blindly following 7 men's dictations!" She came and hugged me "Sorry I won't"... I need all the help I can get with getting her out. It's like she realizes, but knows of no place to go.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    They have no actual power over you, even if you were a pioneer. You are granting them the power by meeting with them. It must be very confusing, not knowing which way to turn. It is unclear how free you are in your mind. You did not say what your family circumstances would be. My family reacted much, much better than I imagined but I read very dark tales here.

    I studied Poli Science as an undergraduate. You are giving them legitimacy that they have not earned. Do you really think that in the history of the world, they are the only people to study the Bible. They teach a variant of Christianity, not considered Christian by most people. I was once impressed by how outrageous their claims are. Well, persecution does not mean you are correct.

    They have no right to order you to do anything. I note that they seemed more worried about losing your field service hours than the state of your mind and heart. Do you find yourself more authentic here or there?

    Most Witnesses are nice on the surface, esp. with a possible live catch. It must be hard to say no to them. Despite doing advocacy for others, I'm not so great at it in my personal life that I can recommend any measures. They are massively violating boundaries. Process itself is important. How someonoe goes about something reveals much about the substantive something.

    The more authority you give to them, the more they will demand. Perhaps you don't need a show down about doctrine with them. Maybe just pick a small boundary , such as no contact for several weeks unless you initiate it. Once you start setting boundaries, however clumsily, people often fall into line. Sometimes they freak out. There is great dignity for me in setting a boundary. God is hard to define. It seems to me that the most important discussion here is between God and you, assuming Christ is God. Once you feel more in control and less overwhelmed, things might brighten.

    I have truly studied the NT. In fact, I purchased and read a 1,000 page tome on Revelation. Revelation made more sense in its day. Many of the numbers refers to actual historical people. Somehow the Romans would tolerate a code but not express text. I found it be beautiful on my own. The Witnesses gave me unwarranted nightmares. The Witnesses have a habit of throwing in minutae to make you think you are wrong. God doesn't want us to know trivia but ask for simple hearts. Don't you think God cares about you, the world, global warming, war and peace, economic acitvity, justice - deep issues rather than what some once meaninful but now lost image means.

    I truly believe that John wrote Revelation to give comfort to Christians facing severe persecution. He wrote to encourage, not to chastise. I believe John had more important things to do with his time than address constantly changiing doctrine of a very small sect, only around for a fraction of a second of the timespan of Christianity. Truth should not be variable.

    One of my favorite books is Life of Pi, about a shipwrecked human with a cargo of zoo animals. It is a story of belief and disbelief. There are two stories in the end. One an exciting adventure in which all kinds of zoo animals do extraordinary things or everyday, ho hum, boring life. Which story do you prefer? With the broad range of beliefs here, there is camraderie. No is going to telephone, visit you, or worse of all, talk to your mom. W/o being too preachy, the choice is not God or no God, Christ or no Christ. Al lit involves is saying that a group of people you don't know and did not choose, will not make decisions for you. It sounds as though deep inside, something is leading to something extraordinary and abundant.

  • ABibleStudent
    pubtruth - ... I need all the help I can get with getting her out. It's like she realizes, but knows of no place to go.

    Hi pubtruth. I am sorry that you have to go through all this drama and frustration with the elders. If you want to help free the mind of your mother, I would suggest reading Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control"), showing your mother unconditional love, talk to your mother and find out what she likes to do, help your mother make new non-JW friends. and learn to ask your mother questions to help her to discover the false teachings of the WTBTS. Good-luck!!!

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,


  • pubtruth

    Thanks for all the feedback, I'm currently reading Crisis of Conscience, I've heard the abbreviated audio book CCMC, but Im going to read the whole thing after I'm done with CoC.

    Heres something very interesting, she got up to go out in service this morning but felt instantly very nervous and queasy and wound up not going. She told me about this a while ago, and we talked a bit and she told me how she wants me to go to the meetings. I tell her, the org is not God, God is in our hearts, we dont need men telling us what to do. She kept defending her stance of how it's the closest thing, even a guy from NASA became a JW () "Where did you hear that?" "IDK somewhere" "Right. You cant beleive everything they tell you." Anyway. She said how I should be in company, even though what they say I cannot agree with. (Pointing out the fact that ever since I've been closed off since I only used to go out with JWs, now no one, even though Im trying to plan something with my "worldly" friends) "Sorry. but I can't agree with it, I can't be lied to. Salvation doesn't depend on the Watchtower!" "I know it doesn't. Who said it depended on them?" (WAIT WHAT?! ) "The same litearture you own, if you're not a Jehovah's Witness, you won't be saved" "No, at least I don't think of it that way! Your grandma said, 'You never know who really makes it, maybe that guy up in the mountains who only tends his farm and has never heard of a bible will be saved'" As things progress I see her as a continually liberal witness. She just discredited the society as the means of salvation! Ive showed her my research in the past. Could this possibly be cognitive dissonance.. I sure hope so...! I almost jumped of joy!

  • pubtruth


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