Video: JWs debate Harold Camping Followers...

by Tuesday 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • freetosee
  • satinka

    Tuesday wrote:

    I remember the story going that they were dressed in white robes waiting for Jesus to take them to heaven and when it didn't happen Russell went back to bethel and said "Is anyone disappointed? Well I'm not!"

    I read a book back in the '80s about the failed rapture on the bridge. But I can't remember the name of it. It wasn't a jw publication and I was counselled for reading it. Apparently I wasn't supposed to. Anybody else read this "illegal" book ...?

    I was a jw then ... what a hollow feeling it left me with!

    Tuesday, the pot calling the kettle black. Priceless!

    Thanks for sharing!

    May I post your link on my blogsite? I'm planning to blog about the Harold Campings of the world.



  • Tuesday
    May I post your link on my blogsite? I'm planning to blog about the Harold Campings of the world.

    Of course, feel free to post the video anywhere you would like. :) I'm glad everyone seems to like it.

  • satinka

    The book I mentioned above is called "Faith on the March" by A. H. MacMillan, © Copyright 1957, Prentice-Hall, Inc., Englewood Cliffs, N.J.

    I am surprised to see that the book was introduced by N.H. Knorr. I suppose the elders who counselled me didn't know...!!!


    To the reader:

    A. H. Macmillan is known to Jehovah's witnesses all over the world. His long and prominent association with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and his faithful record of service as a Christian minister have endeared him to his many friends.
    Toward the end of 1955 Mr. Macmillan asked permission to use the Society's files to write an account of his experiences in the ministry. Since he is a trusted member of the headquarters staff, he was granted permission. A few months ago he informed me the work was finished, and at his request I agreed to read the manuscript for technical accuracy. I soon found myself engrossed in the story which the account of his life and association with Jehovah's witnesses had produced.
    This book is more than the story of one man's growing faith. I believe Mr. Macmillan has made a sincere effort to capture and portray the very essence of the religion that he acknowledges has given meaning to his life. He reveals Jehovah's witnesses as human. He admits their mistakes and explains why no human organization can be infallible. At the same time he reveals their hopes, and presents sound Scriptural reasons for the appeal of these hopes to all kinds of men.
    The book is a straightforward and truthful account. It is unique only in the personal experiences of A. H. Macmillan. In many other respects it could be the story of any one of hundreds of Jehovah's witnesses whom I have known.

    N. H. KNORR,President, Watch Tower Bibleand Tract Society of Pennsylvania

    Brooklyn, New York

    Page 26 - 29

    Expecting the Lord Jesus to come in 1878 to catch them up miraculously to be with him in heaven, some who had been Second Adventists (including Barbour) were disappointed when that miracle did not occur. Russell, though, "did not for a moment feel cast down," but "realized that what God had so plainly declared must some time have a fulfillment"; and he "wanted to have it just in God's time and way." [19] On one occasion while talking with Russell about the events of 1878, I told him that Pittsburgh papers had reported he was on the Sixth Street bridge dressed in a white robe on the night of the Memorial of Christ's death, expecting to be taken to heaven together with many others. I asked him, "Is that correct?"

    Russell laughed heartily and said: "I was in bed that night between 10:30 and 11:00 P.M. However, some of the more radical ones might have been there, but I was not. Neither did I expect to be taken to heaven at that time, for I felt there was much work to be done preaching the Kingdom message to the peoples of the earth before the church would be taken away."

    It was right at the time of this disappointment, as Russell shows, [20] that a permanent breach began between Barbour and Russell. Paul's words at I Corinthians 15:51, 52, were being wrongly construed, Russell had pointed out. There, in Paul's statement, "We shall not all sleep," the word sleep is not synonymous with die, though some had so understood. Rather, here sleep means state of unconsciousness of those who in death must wait for Christ's second coming to awaken them out of such sleep.[21] Russell showed how Paul clearly meant by his words that those alive on earth when Christ returned would not need to go into such sleep of death to wait for a future awakening, but at the instant of their death they then would be "changed" or resurrected immediately, to be with Christ in heaven as spirit persons. This harmonizes with Paul's words in this same chapter, verse 36: "That which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die."

    But Barbour rejected this simple explanation of Paul's words, feeling that he had to "get up something new to divert attention from the failure of the living saints to be caught away en masse." Soon afterward Barbour wrote and published in the Herald "that Christ's death was no more a settlement of the penalty of man's sins than would the sticking of a pin through the body of a fly and causing it suffering and death be considered by an earthly parent as a just settlement for misdemeanor in his child." That denial by Barbour of the basic Bible doctrine of the ransom value of Jesus' sacrifice came as a real shock to Russell. Russell, who now had been regularly contributing to the Herald, immediately wrote and published a powerful defense of the ransom. Then, in the same journal, Barbour and a few supporters continued attacking the ransom doctrine while Russell and others kept on upholding it. Herald readers were confused; it also greatly disturbed Russell. To him the ransom was the keystone, the great foundation of human hope. To attack it was to shake the basis of God's provision for reconciling sinful man to himself. However, Russell soon realized that continued wrangling would not settle the problem. He determined, therefore, to withdraw his support from the Herald, to which he himself had given new life in order to preach the good tidings of the harvest work. But just to withdraw, he saw, would not be sufficient. The ransom must be defended and the work of proclaiming our Lord's return must be continued. In July, 1879 the first issue of Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence was published by C. T. Russell. In 1884 the nonprofit, charitable corporation was chartered that now is known as Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. It has served as the legal and business agent of Jehovah's witnesses ever since. From these small beginnings a tremendous growth has resulted. The message contained in The Watchtower has never halted. From a first distribution of six thousand copies its circulation had grown by 1957 to more than three million copies in forty-six languages. Its message of comfort and hope has assisted an ever-growing host of supporters to change over their thinking and to make straight paths for their feet.[22] By 1957 the number of persons actively engaged in preaching this good news of Jehovah's kingdom had expanded to well over six hundred and fifty thousand.

    Now the issue begun in Eden is to be settled for all time. The good news being preached holds out a prospect of endless life in a world of God's making. You can be sure the way of life begun by God in Eden is not to be lost to mankind. The disobedient act of Adam and Eve has not altered God's purpose. What the first pair did in wrongfully eating of the tree was a little thing, a small happening; but it changed the history of the world. Their yielding to their own personal preference lost for themselves and for their offspring the widest range of individual freedom. It was a corrupting of their minds.[23] Do you think if we persist in their way that it will bring us closer to God? Truth is more important than individuals. It is not a matter of adopting "the religion of your own choice." That is what Adam and Eve did. It is a matter of finding and holding to the one true religion that is God's choice for us.

    "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: . . . he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death."[24]


    I don't know if this helps or not, but for what it's worth...there you have ...ummmm ... something... different date. Somehow, I remember things differently. Do you suppose the book has been revised since MacMillan's death...? Maybe someone has an original printing from a 1957 edition...?


  • Tuesday

    Thanks Satinka,

    So I guess the jury is out on whether or not they wore the white robes and were on the Brooklyn Bridge. It sounds to me that Russell is playing a bit of devil's advocate, like the whole 1975 fiasco. "We didn't really, technically, for-sure tell people the end was in 1975. Some of the more radical ones certainly believed it"

    For those who haven't seen the video over the weekend... check it out you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll re-post it somewhere else :)

  • I quit!
    I quit!

    I thought your video was very good and got the point across but I don't know if many jdubs will get it. About a week ago my JW mother-in-law was watching the news and they were covering the Camping prediction and she made a comment about how stupid he was. I answered here by saying there is always some idiot who thinks they know when the end will be based some sort of weird math and the Bible. She never replied and I'm not sure she got the point.

    I also liked the soundtrack on your video. I just got done reading Sammy Hagar's book and it was nice to hear some of his music.

  • Tuesday
    I thought your video was very good and got the point across but I don't know if many jdubs will get it.

    I was hoping having the JW pot answering with the same exact responses just replacing a couple of words and dates as the Camping Kettle would get the point across fairly well. Then again there is a blinder effect for some people.

    Everyone seems to be fans of Van Halen as well which is pretty cool, I wasn't expecting anyone to think the music really enhanced anything.

  • satinka

    People who are ready to leave will "get it," Tuesday...I feel sure.

    I appreciate your effort and artistic talent to get the message out!


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