JWs at my Door

by laverite 43 Replies latest jw friends

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  Hopscotch

  Laverite I love your reply to them and I've copied it to hopefully use myself one day if you don't mind.

  Your words will stick in their minds and every time they tell another JW about your reply maybe it will drive the splinter in deeper (Matrix movie quote: "You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad").

  About 10 years or so before I left the JWs I remember reading a short interview in a women's magazine over here in Australia about a 'sister' who had left the organization. I never rememberd why she left etc but I always remembered her words that the JW people were generally nice people but those at the top and the organization itself were evil. It was the first time I had ever read anything like that and heard the word 'evil' used to describe the org and of course I dismissed it as apostate ravings, but the words stuck in my mind and of course now I know they are true.

  About 5 years before I left I was reading a book about history or something and for some reason the author brought up JWs and said it was a mind controlled religion. Again this was a big shock to read this and I remember turning to my husband and asking increduously "are we mind controlled?". Of course he said no and we agreed it was just hateful propaganda/persecution. But again those words "mind-controlled" stuck in my brain like that 'splinter in the mind' and of course by the time we left we knew that JWs do belong to a mind controlled religion.

  So hopefully laverite, your words "apocalyptic doomsday cult" and "100% failure rate in all its propecies" will be the splinter in their minds.

  Hopscotch
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  life is to short

  steave2

  I have nothing against expressing a different opinion but it is the way you do it that brothers me.

  Mrs Anderson felt hurt by the way you responded to her and she told you so yet you stood by the fact that you have your rights. OK you have your rights but it is the way you address someone that puts that other person down.

  It is the same with Laverite who by the way is not a SHE but he is a guy a man and if you had read any of his post you would have known that.

  When you read Laverite's response to you, you can clearly see he is confused by your answer to him and why you worded it the way you did because he asked for others to validate his original post.

  You are right you have your right to express anything you like, I just feel it could be done with some thought to how the person you are expressing takes it. Barbara took it as an attack by her response to you and I felt she was right. That is my expressing how you made me feel about what you wrote to both Barbara and Laverite.

  LITS
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  flipper

  LAVERITE- Good job. One thing about it- he won't forget the words you told him about the Witnesses being a cult. Hopefully those words will haunt him someday
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  steve2

  Mrs Anderson felt hurt by the way you responded to her and she told you so yet you stood by the fact that you have your rights. OK you have your rights but it is the way you address someone that puts that other person down.

  I am always affected by hearing that my words have upset others - and, yes, I can always do better next time. I endeavoured in the post you referred to to actually acknowledge how people felt, but at the same time, some pretty borderline comments were made about me - and when I drew attention to them, I was admonished to lighten up. Respect goes both ways and so does a humility to realize we are simply doing our best to communicate sometimes differing opinions.

  Regarding the current post, I was clear to point out my post was my opinion and I fully acknowledged laverite was entitled to his - after all they knocked at his door, not mine. Besides, laverite spoke very bluntly to the JWs - and now I'm being accused of not showing laverite understanding? Respectful dialogue should cross boundaries - not just towards those we agree with. If I'm being taken to task for the way I have responded to laverite, I need to take the feedback on board. All I'm asking is that feedback goes in more than one direction. Whatever we think of the JWs, they are human too. Not all of them come to our doors ready to rip our beliefs to pieces or to prove us wrong - even though I grant many have done exactly this. Laverite had two fairly respectful JWs visit him. He chose to speak his mind as is his full right. I simply pointed out that I would not have spoken that way. I made no personal coments about Laverite, asigned no negative labels. Just a different opinion. And as I have said more than once on this thread, many people agreed with Laverite and have cheered him on. They too are fully entitled to do this.
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  sizemik

  My take opinion on what's transpired here . . .

  A strong "us and them" approach to JW's is one that ex-JW's should consider carefully. We used to be one after all. Some of us bothered householders for many years.

  If indeed it was Laverite's intention to "plant a seed of doubt" by his approach, and that was how he felt he could best do it in the circumstances . . . I have no issue with that AT ALL

  If it is our intention to "give them a slap" . . . then that is short sighted IMO . . . and will likely achieve nothing good.

  I guess it all comes down to motive . . . what we are trying to achieve . . . and we all have a different take on how best to achieve it.

  Only Laverite knows his true motive . . . but I give the benefit of the doubt and say . . . well done! . . . I hope something good comes of it.

  Please note . . . I am not attacking anyone . . . this is just my opinion.
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  nolongerwaiting

  I liked your reply. I've thought about what I would do if someone came to my door. At this moment I am so fresh out that I would probably just hide. I'm not someone who has witty brilliant things to say but I so wish I did. It doesn't help matters any that I am very non-confrontational.

  NLW's wife
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  laverite

  I just wrote a reply that I lost due to browser issues, I guess.

  Thank you to Steve2 for your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective. I do want to emphasize that both I and the gentleman who were doing the talking were both polite. It wasn't confrontational. It was a very brief exchange.

  Thanks, also, to everyone who chimed in. I don't think there's any point getting into a confrontation with JWs. A polite, brief exchange may do more than an in-depth discussion of doctrine, etc. JWs are told by the Organization how they are viewed and seen as shining examples. I think it can be quite jarring when they find out that others see them differently than they see themselves. I do think that this very brief exchange will be something that they both remember (not that it will have a big impact...but it will be memorable). I imagined them thinking something along the lines of "OMG, that guy thinks we are a doomsday cult!" Well, brother, if the shoe fits...
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  laverite

  Sizemik - Thanks for your post (and also wanted to say thanks again to everyone who responded). The thing is that I don't know what my "true motive" was. I don't think it was that deep (maybe it was a bit of both??? IDK...who knows...I don't have any deep insights on this).

  It was an immediate reaction that I didn't reflect on or plan in any way. It's what came out of my mouth right in that instant. My computer was on, so I signed on right after to JWN and posted. After posting, I haven't thought about it much since. I do want to say again that I maintained a polite tone. I believe in smiling and in using social niceties.

  I wouldn't go out of my way to take on any JWs. They came to me. I wouldn't search them out. After all, I was born in. My family are JWs. This is not a foreign culture to me. I identify with them. I used to be on the other side of the door. I thought we were admired as shining examples. I would have been mortified to think that someone might think were in a cult.
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  laverite

  Mrs. NLW - I believe you should not push yourself and do what feels comfortable. I also don't like confrontation. I avoid it! But the words just came jumping out of my mouth. Still, I kept a polite tone.
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  WontLeave

  I try to talk to Witnesses. I don't live in my territory, so when they come to my door, I don't let on I'm one of them. I invite them to stay and chat. I get out a KJV and whenever they say something stupid, I look up a scripture and ask how the belief doesn't violate it. They don't come anymore, even though I welcome them back anytime, when they leave. I'm very nice to them and joke around with them. I've been offered Bible studies and accepted, but they never come back.

  JWs don't want to talk about the Bible with anyone who cares about the Bible. They want to give a canned presentation and drop off magazines to apathetic church zombies. If everybody who wanted JWs to stop coming refused literature, but invited them to discuss the Bible, they'd get frustrated and go away. The vast majority of Witnesses - even old-timers, pioneers, and elders - don't know anything except how to stuff magazines in the storm doors of empty houses. Invite them to discuss the Bible as long as they want, tell them you don't read church literature because you believe church doctrine is what ruined Christianity.

  It's amazing to watch the change. At first, they believe they've found a like-minded person and they're all happy. After about 5 minutes, they realize they can't preach. They realize they aren't Bible scholars and all they are is pack mules for the WTBTS. Take away their magazines and they become dumb dogs, unable to bark.

  Their Bible 101 level knowledge is only enough to get them through a presentation, but not enough to actually teach anyone anything. Even if all of JW doctrine was 100% accurate, I've never met a JW who could establish much of it with the Bible. They just "know" it, because they've been told to know it. That's why when you stop attending meetings or get DFed, they say "You know it's the Truth" but if you start asking questions, they lock up and call you an apostate. You show them to be the useful idiots the Society uses them as. They're delivery boys; not ministers.