The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.

by whereami 209 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • whereami

    Gotta love Pat.

    "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus." - Thomas Jefferson

  • poppers

    I wish he'd tell us what he really thinks.

  • godrulz

    Romans 1 says that this guy is without excuse for suppressing truth. Jesus claimed to be God and progressively revealed a triune understanding. This guy does not know what he is talking about, typical atheistic nonsense (though he is articulate). The incarnation, Deity, death, resurrection of Christ is the power of God. The Trinity does NOT teach that there are 3 gods in 1 (that would be Mormonism, tritheism). The triune understanding is based on revelation, not raw reason. He is in the dark and fails to distinguish nature vs personal distinction. 3 gods in 1 god is a contradiction as is 3 persons in 1 person. 3 personal distinctions in one nature/essence/substance of God. The Bible does teach the trinity. He is wrong about church history. Formalization of the details later in church history in response to heresies like Arianism does not mean that is when it was invented. What is worse than hell/lake of fire? He does not understand the holiness of God, the biblical understanding of hell/Satan, etc. He is a mocker, scoffer, that God will judge in the end. Even if there was no Satan, there could still be a loving God that would be winsome. The fact that he concludes that Satan is our Savior (non sequitur logical fallacy) shows that he lacks any credibility to pontificate about anything religious.

  • Satanus

    3 persons in one god - no problem. But then, i'm a pantheist, ie, we are all god:) Can trinitarians handle that?


  • godrulz

    Pantheism blurs the distinction (ontological) between Creator and creation. Pantheism and Arianism (JW) are both fatal errors. The triune understanding is NOT pantheistic (nor panentheism). It is strictly monotheistic. BTW, JWs are not wrong about everything (they are right to see that Creator/creation is distinct, but wrong to reduce Jesus to Michael or mere man).

  • WontLeave


    wrong to reduce Jesus to Michael or mere man

    Here's something I have never been able to understand: How is saying Jesus is Michael an insult to Jesus? The theory the Society has about Jesus being Michael is actually one of their more sound theories. It's no slam dunk and I believe it to be wrong to preach it as a fact, but at least there are some scriptures that appear to indicate this. The Word, before becoming Jesus, was a unique being. Michael the Archangel (which means he's above the angels) is a unique being. Jesus is the "only-begotten" in relation to the Father. Michael is the "archangel" in relation to the angels. Why can't they be the same? Just as someone can be an employee, a father, a brother, etc. to different people, Jesus is different things to different personages. To us, he's a savior, but not to God or angels.

    As far as reducing Jesus to "mere man", you'll have to talk to the apostle Paul about that, since "man" is a word he uses repeatedly to describe the Christ on earth. In Heaven, Jesus had (and has) a very different existence than he did 2000 years ago. As the "last Adam", he would need to be human unless Adam was something other than a man.

    It sounds like you need to read the Athanasian Creed, because you repeatedly deny the definition of the Trinity. It may be that you recognize the Trinity to be a ridiculous belief, so you've tweaked it a bit to sound less preposterous, but that's dishonest and it's not the Trinity when you start changing things. You can't invoke the name for a belief then deny you believe what that name describes. I might as well say I believe in the Trinity, then go on to say that means the Father has always existed, at one time created the Son, using his power called Holy Spirit. Boom, my personal definition of Trinity, so now I'm a Trinitarian.

  • still thinking
  • Satanus


    'It is strictly monotheistic.'

    And pantheism isn't? It is, let me assure you.

    'they are right to see that Creator/creation is distinct,'

    Yah we don't want him getting his holy feet dirty in this filthy, sinful creation, do we?


  • frankiespeakin

    I think a foursquare God to be an advance over the Trinity perhaps God, Jesus, Satan, and Holy Spirit might be a little more balancing to the psyche. This All Good God and All Bad God Satan,, seems a little bad for psychic health because it causes a lot of repression to get dumped in our shadow where it screws us up.

  • moshe

    An well known ex-JW- now a pastor- condemed me for converting to Judaism and givng up his "Jesus"- I really got his goat, when I replied, "at least I don't worship a false pagan triune God"- Maybe, he still has some subconsious doubts about how the Trinity really works.

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