by whereami 209 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Would you like to at least highlight your points please.
The only point I was trying to make is to show that the RCC has, over the centuries and still is, defining its doctrine of salavation in the points that are beyond simply, "God's grace through Jesus Christ".
Sorry tec
Don't be sorry. It was the content that made me go cross-eyed, and I'm not guessing that this was in your own words :).
Tammy
To me, in short, Jesus shares the same nature as God and as such, Jesus is divine.
Period.
Beyond that, I will allow the HS to guid me.
Amen!
:)
Tammy
Baptism is not a condition of salvation (repentant faith and continuance in the faith are the conditions, not works or rituals). Salvation is based on faith in Christ alone, but it must be the real, true Jesus, not a worthless counterfeit. Jehovah/Jesus of the WT do not exist. They are false views of the true God/Christ (cf. Mormonism/Islam).
dear Tammy...
Jesus (the Son of Man) was positionally lower than the Father on earth...as is stated in the bible He humbled Himself in the incarnation thus limiting His power...God had to limit His power in order to show fallen man His love and mercy, otherwise His absolute Holiness would demand instant destruction of sin in His presence. man can not see God and live. in Jesus Christ we see God...the image of the invisible God.
From reading the bible we can understand that Jesus the Son of Man was not always a human being but came into human "being" at the incarnation...but Jesus as the Son of God is eternal. He has no beginning and He has no end as God...but as the scripture states Jesus the Son of Man will henceforth be seen sitting at the right hand of the power.(mat.26:64)...Father glorify Me with the glory I had with You before the world was.(john 17:5)...even before He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. to explain it another way...there is a veil on the eyes of the jewish people to this day when the OT is read...in Christ the veil is lifted...now we kiss the Son. (2 cor 3:13-16, psalm 2:12) if the veil is not lifted that we don't kiss the Son...we perish in the way...we(the bride) would not be known to the Lord (the Groom)...mat.7:21-23 luke 7:36-50... love michelle
'there is a veil on the Jewish people to this day'...........do ya think it had anything to do with Christians butchering Jews for the last 2000 years or some Bishop inserting 'let his blood be upon us', ya think...
myelaine: were you ever JW? I am from Edmonton, AB. You? God bless, sister. Please sign up on my are you a born again Christian thread. I appreciate your heart and head.
For the record, I'm not pushing the Trinity to convert anyone to become 'A TRINITARIAN'. I am mearly giving true scriptural examples of some of the numerous texts that support the idea that there is more to God than the singular expression that we use in the English language. And forgive me for repeating myself from earlier posts, but in Hebrew there are two words for 'one'. One word [yachid] is singular and the other ['echad] usually means a combination of things like morning and evening became one ['echad] day. It is in this way that the Jewish Shcma' [Deut 6;4] reads "Hear, O Isreal: The Lord our God is one ['echad] Lord"
http://biblos.com/deuteronomy/6-4.htm
Of course, Still Thinking, Designs, Wont Leave, and plenty of others make very valid points. Believe it or not, I have more in common with you guys than you may realize. But, I am a Catholic, who left after reading the 'Should you believe in the trinity booklet' . I then returned, several years later through grace granted to me, from Jesus Christ himself and I was born again [although, not 'a born again'] It is a great question that TEC threw out earlier when she said that she can't get over Jesus saying that 'the Father is greater than I'. Of course there is so much to sift through just reading the bible that you cannot take words and phrases and twist them to suit your own tastes. Please know that I know that. That's why I am only giving scriptural examples.
It is in scripture that Jesus had to humble himself, 'he had to empty himself of his glory' but not his divinity. John 17;5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began"
Phil 2;6 In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.
or from Young's literal translation "who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,"
So, as I read what that actually says, I think out loud 'Who has glory in heaven?' A created being? I think of glory belonging to God, but I'd have to look that one up....after all, I'm just thinking out loud.
Jesus is the Father's only son, 'and the son can only do what the Father has shown him' That is true, I know, I've read it. But, I've also read John 16;15 when Jesus say 'All that the Father has is mine, therefore I said that He will take what is mine and declare it to you"
The Father is the head of Jesus and the husband is the head of the family, does that mean that you are greater than your wife? Does that mean that fathers are greater than their sons? Of course not, otherwise Adam would have been the greatest man ever, right?
When I read in scripture that Jesus is directly referred to as God, then I cannot deny that is what I read, can you?
Acts 4;12 referrign to Jesus"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
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Great thread. I've only read the first page...Marked
