News from Spain: WT in court soon for unlawful use of a photograph

by AndersonsInfo 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • dgp
    dgp

    Some parts of the original text in Spanish are not very clear, not because they are not clearly written but because the reader cannot know some facts which the Centelles brothers describe very quickly. For example, the original Spanish contains the word "presupuesto", which is most often used as "budget", but it might also mean "assumption". I translated it as "sums", but I really cannot be sure what it really means.

    In the interest of knowing what was going on, I followed several links and I think I understand what the matter is.

    The plaintiffs are Sergi and Octavi Centelles, the sons of the late Catalonian photographer Agustí Centelles. This was a famous war photographer and some of his work can be seen here:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=agust%C3%AD+centelles&hl=en&prmd=ivnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YSHMTaGYFIagtwek2738Bw&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=653

    They are claiming that the Spanish Watchtower used a picture taken by their late father in a way that violates Spanish copyright laws.

    According to Octavi Centelles (http://octavicentelles.blogspot.com/), copyright laws were violated: no authorization was requested to use the picture; the picture was manipulated to omit some of its contents (the arm at the bottom); no mention was made of the author, and it was reproduced in 16 million magazines without the payment of royalties, and this at a time when the Watchtower magazine was indeed sold for a price. In Spain, the price was thirty pesetas, "half of the price of La Vanguardia (http://www.lavanguardia.com/), a journal of countrywide distribution".

    The original picture:



    The basis of the claim:

    Octavi Centelles also claims that "The Watchtower paradise is that expensive that it costed 50% of the sale price of a journal which contained six times more pages and contents" (¡que caro es el paraiso de la Watch Tower que valía el 50% de un periódico con seis veces más paginación y contenidos!). In my opinion, this is meant to say that the sale price was not negligible.

    Here is the link that Octavi Centelles gives so people can check what the sale price of La Vanguardia was at the time:

    http://hemeroteca.lavanguardia.com/preview/1986/02/01/pagina-1/32870921/pdf.html

    So, if I understand this correctly, in brief, the Centelles are claiming that the Watchtower made illegal use of a picture taken by their father, and that the Watchtower made a profit out of that publication.
    The Centelles brothers want 90,000 euros for the publication (http://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20110424/54144627896/los-hijos-de-centelles-reclaman-90-000-euros-a-una-revista-religiosa-por-publicar-una-foto.html). This is their case against the Spanish Watchtower. They are also thinking to file similar claims in "other countries, such as the United States, Brazil and Japan", according to the article I'm quoting above.

    Apparently the Watchtower refused to settle the dispute:
    Es una lástima que por la prepotencia y las malas formas de los dirigentes de los Testigos de Jehová, nos llegaron a mandar una carta, desde Madrid, con el papel membre de la confesión, en inglés y sin firmar. Lamentablemente el caso ha acabado en el Juzgado Mercantil núm. 3 de Madrid, donde se verá la vista previa el próximo 12 de Mayo.

    !It's a pity that the arrogance and bad manners of the leaders of the Jehovah's Witness went as far as sending us a letter in the official letterhead of this persuasion, sent from Madrid, in English and without a signature. Most regrettably the case ended up in the Third Court of Commercial Concerns of Madrid, where the first hearing will be held on May 12".

    The Centelles also claim that this is not the only time the Watchtower has made such use of pictures:



    This is an image taken from a German magazine, Stern.

    Now, the picture involved in the claim is very famous in itself. It is called the "Mater dolorossa", or "Mother grieving", and it shows the wife of the late Gabriel Pernau, mourning his death (http://testigoscristianosdejehova.blogspot.com/2009/02/la-sociedad-watchtower-y-sus-maestrias.html).

    The picture was taken to document the bombing of the Liceu Escolar in the city of Lleida. It was bombed by the Italian aviation, while Mussolini was in power, in support of the Nationalist side in the Spanish Civil War.

    The Liceu Escolar was an anarchist school that followed the principles of the Escola Moderna. It was "intended to educate the working-classes from a secular, liberal, class-conscious perspective.". So the Italians destroyed what you could call the nursey of "red" ideas.

    The casualties were 700 hundred, 48 of them teachers and several children. There is now a sculpture in the figure of a man lying on the floor, in memory of the victims.

    The Escola Moderna was initiated by Catalonian Francesc Ferrer i Guardia and its principles were adopted even in the United States.

    Liceu Escolar: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Liceu_Escolar_de_Lleida

    Escola Moderna: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Modern_School_%28United_States%29

    In Catalonian: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ca/wiki/Escola_Moderna

    In Spanish: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/es/wiki/Escuela_Moderna

    Apparently the government of Spain bought the work of Agustí Centelles (Spanish only, sorry) http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2009/11/29/cultura/1259492512.html. I don't know what this means for the claim.

    As to Snoozy's question, yes, that seems to be what the Centelles are saying, that the Watchtower didn't want their publications resold, while they do nothing to stop eBay or todocoleccion from reselling.

  • dgp
    dgp

    My speculation, then, is that the Watchtower didn't settle the matter before because it would mean that they actually sold the magazines. I understand that the Watchtower claimed their publications were free to avoid tax problems in the United States. But that is my speculation, and I think other posters know better.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Latest news: The claim was accepted (http://octavicentelles.blogspot.com/)

    Spanish version:

    Necesito creer... en la justicia

    Madrid, a la salida del Juzgado Mercantil núm. 3 de Madrid, Octavi Centelles ha declarado "el juez ha admitido a trámite nuestra demanda y señalará proximamente fecha para la vista del mismo".

    A la demanda que tenemos en marcha van a seguir de manera inmediata las siguientes, la actitud de los demandados es de desprecio a nuestra justa y legítima reclamación. Nosotros reclamamos la restitución de los derechos, la publicación de la fotografía íntegra, que pidan de manera pública disculpas por la burda manipulación y omisión del autor de dicha imagen. Estamos agradecidos a todas las personas que se solidarizan con nosotros frente a la sociedad Watchtower y sus filiales. Seguiremos reclamando todos nuestros derechos en todos los países donde se realizó la impresión y difusión de la revista. My translation into English: I need to believe... in justice

    In Madrid, when leaving the Third Court of Commercial Concerns, Octavi Centelles stated "the judge admitted our claim and will indicate a date for hearing it in a future date". This ongoing claim will be followed immediately by others. The defendants' behavior is one of snubbing our just and legitimate claim. We are claiming for the restoration of our rights, the publication of the photography in full, and for a public apology for having altered the picture in such a base manner and for ommitting the name of the author of the picture. We thank all the people who showed their support while we face the Watchtower Society and its branches. We will continue to claim our rights in full, in every country where the magazine was printed and distributed".
  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Look for the Borg to hit heavy on both donations and international persecution at this summer's conventions.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Can anyone really claim persecution in this case? I think it would take an extremely Orwellian mind not to notice that

    1) the picture did appear in the magazine, in violation of copyright laws

    2) the owner of the magazine was not the Watchtower

    3) the sum involved isn't huge

    Some active witness might think that the help received from "apostates" could make this persecution. The question that remains is, would it have been any less true if former witnesses hadn't volunteered their copies? Were the copies not available for sale over the internet?

    What would happen if the copyrights of the Watchtower were violated?

    In my opinion, this is as clear a case as can be.

  • stuckinamovement
    stuckinamovement

    It seems like a pretty clear cut case of copyright violation. I am glad that the Watchtower will be held legally accountable.

    SIAM

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    Thanks for the translation, dgp

    The arrogance of the WTS is staggering.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    A very interesting post I look forward to the outcome

    smiddy

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    Three years ago I didn't know any of this. ^^^^^

    I was still in WT/JW.org drone mode .

    I believed I had the true religion... because they told me so... lol

    LoisLane happily awake and no longer listening to lying religious people.

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    WT lost this case. See my post titled Confidential News From Spain from an Insider.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/281364/1/Confidential-News-from-Spain-from-an-Insider#.U7S8wOkg_L8

    Barbara

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