Once I had daughters, knowing how the WTS encourages and cultivates this misogynistic mindset, I knew I had to leave. I didn't want my girls to grow up believing that they had to agree to be a man's doormat in a relationship. I didn't want them to think that they were worth less because they were born without a penis. I honestly don't know how my mother ever got sucked in to this religion and felt it was ok to accept that treatment for herself or her daughters.
May 15th WT - Wives Should be Obedient, Submissive & Not Disagree
by flipper 70 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Scully
What about the JW men who withhold sex to punish their wives?
I'm sure most of them get over it fairly quickly (the rest are passive aggressive jerks) ... that's probably the origin for the scripture that says not to go to bed angry with each other. LOL
-
scooterspank
How about having to cover your head to say a prayer aloud in a group if you're a woman? I will never forget being allowed to say the blessing before dinner but I had to put a paper napkin on my head. RIDICULOUS!!! JW is one of the most sexist religions out there. I will never forget one Saturday afternoon studying for the Watchtower with my fiancee. I cracked a joke in the middle of our study and he actually looked at me and said that "I needed to learn how to respect him because he was going to be my husband." That went over well (and we never got married). One of many things that led to my eventual and continuing freedom. Wow! How refreshing to find this site. This is my first post. I could go on for pages but I'll save some for later.
-
Justitia Themis
I know of one married couple where the wife is a degreed engineer at my company and the husband has a high school diploma and spent some time at Bethel. He moved to my area and got a job as an appliance installer. After they got married some suggested she quit her job because she made significantly more than him and it could make him feel like he wasn't head of the house
This view isn't limited to JWs. My daughter works with a "Christian" female accountant in the same position. Her high-school educated, pot-smoking husband and her had marital issues, especially after the birth of their daughter. So, they went to the church for counseling. The church counselors said she should should quit her job because he was feeling badly about himself and his headship, and that was likely contributing to him smoking pot. :)
She told my daughter that she was preparing to leave him but wanted to wait until Scarlett (their daughter) was in kindergarten; however, she was conflicted because she was deeply concerned about Jesus would view this. Scarlett is set to start kindergarten this fall and guess what! The mom "accidentally" got pregnant. Now she "can't" leave. Guess she doesn't have to worry about offending Jesus now does she. : )
http://blog.marshillchurch.org/category/basic-training/biblical-womanhood-basic-training/
http://blog.marshillchurch.org/2011/02/01/the-nasty-tongue-of-the-proud-dialoguing-wives-part-2/
-
flipper
O.K. Back from breakfast.
YAN BIBYIAN- Thanks for the link to the JW site - but if I download those links- my computer may get a demon from that site ! I trust my friend - JW's may send me a virus. LOL !
TOTALLY ADD- Yes indeed, that picture is pretty eerie.
BAND ON THE RUN- You make very good points about how unmanly and weak these " Christian " men are or JW men. It takes a cowardly man in my opinion to denigrate females and who puts women down. I knew more than a few men like that years ago as a JW who I wanted to box their heads together due to the mistreatment of their wives. I'm glad you fought for yourself my friend. Good for you.
MR. FREEZE- Mistreatment of women always bothered me in the JW cult too.
REBEL 8- Pretty funny stuff. Nice. We should all be so lucky to have our farts mocked ! LOL !
REOPENED MIND- I'm very happy that you and TOTALLY ADD have a great marriage. I'm sure it brought a lot of pain of heart to you to experience mistreatment as a JW woman through the years. Believe me, I saw my share too in 44 years in the cult. Mrs. Flipper and I have an equal relationship as partners with no ego or bossiness on either of our parts. The way it should be without either partner controlling the other one.
UNSHACKLED- You are correct. Women HAVE been suppressed and dominated for centuries by patriarchal man dominated political societies AND religions. And the reason they tolerate such abuse ? I feel it's due to fear being indoctrinated into their minds. Many of them can NOT see any escape due to being mind controlled.
FLYING HIGH NOW- It sounds like your ex-husband definitely took for granted what he had in you when you were his wife. Amazing how hindsight is 20/20 isn't it ? Now he realizes what he lost but too late. I understand not being appreciated by a former marriage mate. Because I refused to move up from a Ministerial Servant to an elder - it pissed my JW ex-wife off tremendously in the late 1980's when we were still married. She thought she had a catch as I was an elders son- thought I'd want to do the same. But raising our children was much more important to me than position in the congregation.
SNOOZY- Very interesting what you saw on 20/20 . I think most religions don't value women as they should be valued. Very man pleasing self absorbed and patriarchal in beliefs. Sick.
DARINGHART- Although some of the women may have been disrespectful to their husbands, after being in the organization 44 years - most elders wives I knew were pretty stymied and controlled. If women DID speak out against their elder husbands it could be just a payback to their elder husbands for receiving bad treatment in the first place.
MRS. JONES- Exactly my thought. FHN's ex-husband knows he blew it and now regrets it. Too little, too late
-
flipper
FLYING HIGH NOW- I think that if a husband OR a wife witholds sex intentionally from his or her partner - it's usually about abusively using power and control over the other person to get what they want selfishly. Or sometimes physical and psychological issues come up. Unless there is a physical or psychological reason a couple are unable to have sex - I think people should be having sex regularly.
PAMSGIRL- I bet you AND your husband are happy to be out of the JW's ! It is so sad to see JW women trudging about from door to door slogging their way through rain or inclement weather or ANY weather just to be looked down on for not doing enough. We are lucky we got out when we did ! Thanks for the well wishes. I'm doing a little better today.
RETROVIRUS- I think it was the cult Jehovah's Witnesses that turned my ex-wife against me when I stopped attending. But she exploited the fact that I stopped attending to manipulate my daughters against me. Calling me rebellious and evil to them. It is strange how the Witnesses try to separate themselves as " better " than other fundamentalist religions - but they are just as bad or worse in their treatment of women ! Thanks for the well wishes, doing better today.
LIFE IS TOO SHORT- I know you had a lot of mistreatment while you attended as a Witness . It's good that you are beginning to recognize that it wasn't just the PEOPLE who mistreated you that are messed up- it's the whole JW cult and WT society that are messed up and their teachings and treatment of ALL JW's !
TEC- Good point. Everybody that is a rank & file JW is treated really disparagingly and disrespectfully. But especially women and children. Men tend to get more breaks sadly.
JGNAT- My mom an elders wife has always said that she is " the neck that turns my dad's head ". LOL ! I've always got a kick out of that- because she's right ! But she's a really cool 84 yr.old gal. Great sense of humor- which is amazing after being in the JW cult for 60 yrs !
THETRUEONE- Very true. It is so ancient and archaic the way JW men treat women it's ridiculous. I mean, as you said you expect to see this treatment of women in the middle east ( which is disgusting ) but not our supposedly enlightened modern society. Guess we aren't as enlightened as we think we are.
JADEEN- I'm glad you and your hubby are happy and have a great partnership ! My wife and I share the household duties as well. I do 90 % of the cooking and she does most of the cleaning ( since I have to clean businesses all the time burns me out ) so we have a great sharing thing going on too. Almost married 5 years now so we are doing something right !
SCULLY- I'm glad you got yourself, hubby, and daughters out of the JW cult so your daughters would not see the bad examples of mistreatment and abuse of women. Good for you. I'm sure your daughters have benefitted greatly from this !
SCOOTERSPANK- Welcome to the board ! Nice to hear from you ! I'm sorry you were mistreated as a woman in the Witnesses. It's a good thing you didn't marry your fiance. It sounds like he would have been a control freak. Better to find that out BEFORE marriage than after for sure ! Yeah, I thought the napkin on the head thing was crazy too ! I remember going on Bible Studies with " sisters " in congregations and they would wear a scarf or napkin on their head when conducting a study. Thought it was the dumbest thing ever. What was dumber is I should have spoken up about it and told her not to wear it.
JUSTITIA THEMIS- Thanks for the links. You are right- I agree that MANY religions are like this telling women not to show up their men or embarrass them. My take is if a man doesn't want to get embarrassed he should get off his a$$ and get a good paying job ! Incredible experience, thanks for sharing
-
RayPublisher
FINALLY! A WT study article I can totally agree with! Good job FDS!
-
Listener
You're such a gentleman Mr Flipper, thoughtfully replying to each individuals comments, male and female. That's what it's all about and a good example on how to treat others.
-
JRK
Under My Thumb ~ Stones
Under my thumb
The girl who once had me down
Under my thumb
The girl who once pushed me around
It's down to me
The difference in the clothes she wears
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb
Ain't it the truth babe?
Under my thumb
The squirmin' dog who's just had her day
Under my thumb
A girl who has just changed her ways
It's down to me, yes it is
The way she does just what she's told
Down to me, the change has come
She's under my thumb
Ah, ah, say it's alright
Under my thumb
A siamese cat of a girl
Under my thumb
She's the sweetest, hmmm, pet in the world
It's down to me
The way she talks when she's spoken to
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb
Ah, take it easy babe
Yeah
It's down to me, oh yeah
The way she talks when she's spoken to
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb
Yeah, it feels alright
Under my thumb
Her eyes are just kept to herself
Under my thumb, well I
I can still look at someone else
It's down to me, oh that's what I said
The way she talks when she's spoken to
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb
Say, it's alright.
Say it's all...
Say it's all...
Take it easy babe
Take it easy babe
Feels alright
Take it, take it easy babe.The GB has trashed the Stones in their pubs, but agrees on a sexist level.
JK
-
insearchoftruth
Flipper, I really am impressed at the way you take the time to reply to everyone!!! Very appreciated to be able to read your thoughts on what other folks post!
Thanks for the advance information on an upcoming study article. I guess the present campaign is drawing my wife back in to a study, I think she will always be a back and forth study, does not really know what she wants.
I am going to be very interesting to see her reaction to this information, she is trying to get me to read the family happiness book with her, I have paged through it and it seems pretty vanilla except for the 'attend christian meetings' advice. What amazes me when I skim it is how incredibly patriarchal the WTS is, even towards those who are considered as unbelievers, as long as it is not a spiritual matter, the man sets the rules, and what amazed me even more is that in the case of raising a child, the unbelieving mate can still make the 'spiritual' decision.
The 'family happiness' book is I believe from the 90s, maybe even older so I was wondering if the WTS would be softening its stance in order to appease the woman who make up the majority of the membership, it sure does not seem that way at all.
Have not posted lately, but I lurk and read almost all that comments on doctrine, most interested in the changes in doctrine that are always just around the corner.
Thanks again for a great post!!!