@jgnat:
Are you keeping up with your studies? This week's study article identifies these creative "days" to be epochs. (WT February 15, 2011, p. 8, pp. 10.)
If you've been reading this thread -- really, reading it -- you would realize that I have been saying what Jehovah's Witnesses have been teaching they have been teaching for many years unbeknownst to many active Jehovah's Witnesses and to those, like yourself, who are no longer active Jehovah's Witnesses, as might be made clear were you to do a cursory search of some of our publications. You are free to believe that our mention of each of the creative days as epochs is some new idea recently introduced in our literature, but I just picked out blurbs from three articles that appeared in the Awake! magazine as far back as 39 years ago where specific mention is made of these creative days being "epochs":
Significantly, the Genesis account shows that the expression "day" is used in a flexible sense. At Genesis 2:4, the entire period of six days described in the preceding chapter is spoken of as only one day. Logically, these were, not literal days of 24 hours, but long periods of time. Each of these epochs evidently lasted thousands of years. "Where Can You Find Answers?" (Awake! June 22, 2004, p. 11)
He was impressed when we showed him that the creative days were epochs, and that the order of appearance of life as given in Genesis agreed with the order science postulates. He was also intrigued to see that Genesis 1:1 shows that the physical universe existed before the creative days began. We have since called on him again. "When This Issue Went to School" (Awake! April 22, 1982, p. 17)
In the Bible’s first book (Genesis, chapter one) the creation is recounted. It is presented in a simple and straightforward manner. During great creative epochs (called "days" in the account) various life-forms were created. "Why Must Even Youths Die?" (Awake! June 8, 1972, p. 6)
Just these three articles alone, @jgnat, serve to underscore the point that I have been making here in this thread, namely, that while Jehovah's Witnesses are involved in a work that involves teaching others what things the Bible says, we are not all of us "paying constant attention to ourselves and to our teaching," as we ought to be doing. While becoming proficient in what we teach and how we teach does take time to achieve, "if we do not tire out," we are convinced that 'by doing these things, we will save both ourselves and those who listen to us.' (1 Timothy 4:16; Galatians 6:9)
You asked me whether I have been 'keeping up with my studies,' and I would have to answer your question with a "yes," because I've done this, but it is not enough for me to just 'keep up' with what we might be currently studying as a body of Christians, with what material we might be currently studying as a congregation. Those who have made it their endeavor to just 'keep up' are no longer with us, are no longer Jehovah's Witnesses, or they are fading fast, because they don't appreciate that because we are a teaching organization -- not some religious club where people gather to share anecdotal tales or to tell interesting or humorous stories, but an organization with a mandate to preach the word and teaching everything we were commanded to teach others -- we need to study the things we are learning from the Bible; we must make a study of these things and do more than just "keep up." As the apostle Paul exhorted us, we must 'ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, that our advancement may be manifest to all persons.' (1 Timothy 4:15)
Note that I say these things not for your benefit, because I do not believe for an instant that I would ever be able to reason with you, persuade you, convince you that in your standing in opposition to me and Jehovah's Witnesses you are really fighting against God because you simply cannot afford to believe this, and I'm not trying to reason, persuade, convince you that this is what you are doing.
But let me say this: First, that the god that you're serving is not stronger than Jehovah, the true God, who is my God, and, second, that I have said all these things that I have said here for the benefit of those lurking this thread, for with these I might be able to reason, persuade and convince that the work that we have been commissioned to do is not a joke, and that we are not joking around here, that Jehovah's Witnesses have taken their mandate to preach the word seriously as God has given proof in our hearts that we are fit to be entrusted as Christian men and as Christian women with the good news of God's kingdom, and so it is to them -- the lurkers -- that I really speak; although you might imagine otherwise, @jgnat, it is not to you that I speak, not really. (2 Timothy 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 2:4)
Those that deviate from the truth do not respect the mandate to preach the word, which is ok; these "deviators" do not have to respect it, and we will eventually disfellowship them from our midst, for this mandate is a serious work that cannot be entrusted to those lacking appreciation, those having no genuine love for their neighbors, those driven by curiosity to join us for a time, and ultimately driven by selfishness to seek our demise as if they could actually thrust away from Jehovah's Witnesses all of the good promises that God has given mankind.
You have "deviated from the truth," which was your choice to make, and I have absolutely no right to judge you for the choice you made and so do not judge you at all, but the "solid foundation of God" continues to stand, and I believe hope still remains for the lurkers, so it is really to the lurkers I speak. (2 Timothy 2:16-19)
djeggnog, if you do not attempt to reach out and come to an understanding with the inquirer,
You quoted 1 Corinthians 13:1 in your post, even as Satan quoted Psalm 91:11, 12, to Jesus (at Matthew 4:6), but I am no more impressed by your taking it upon yourself to use the word of God in positing an argument about me 'coming to an understanding' with you as to your point of view than was Jesus in coming to an understanding with Satan as to his point of view. What's wrong with you?
As for your refusal to engage me any further, I understand. I don't play chess with my son any more for the same reason.
Are you blind? Really, how well do you know the game of chess? How many moves do you look ahead? Can you not see in advance what's coming? Maybe your son is a lousy chess player, I don't know, but you cannot measure a man or a woman by how well he or she plays a game. Is life as trivial to you as a game? Life is not a game. I have posted several messages in response to yours in this one thread alone, so how can you assert that I have refused to engage you "any further"? Let's roll this back:
@jgnat wrote:
How can there be a meeting of minds if we aren't even speaking the same language?
@dgeggnog wrote:
I accept the fact that you and I do not speak the same language. Let's not pretend that we ever could.
@jgnat wrote:
djeggnog, in your extensive education, it might be useful to take an introductory course in logic.
@dgeggnog wrote:
As the apostle Paul stated at 1 Corinthians 2:2, was the case for him, I, too, have "decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and him impaled," but thank you very much for the "refresher" on logic....
I really have nothing else to say to you. You want to pick an argument with me, but I have no interest in arguing with you about anything at all, @jgnat. Again, I will not pretend that you and I speak, or will ever speak, the same language, and as someone that believes in the exercise of one's own free will, I'm ok with you being you.
In this thread, you were picking an argument with me about, what was it, logic? Evidently you didn't think it to be audacious on your part to be suggesting to me that I should "take an introductory course," because you said this to maybe get a rise out of me? I don't know, but I'm not here to argue with anyone. I joined this thread to discuss the topic started by the OP. The following is what @the pharmer wrote in his initial post:
I wanted my JW friend's perspective on something, so I asked them this question:
If I read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the WT's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e. who is correct)?
I would note that the OP doesn't ask a thing about logic or the symbols that might be used, or anything at all about speaking the same language as someone else. But you were the one to introduce these things into this thread. I have nothing more to say to you about these things. You want to pick an argument with me, but I have no interest whatsoever in arguing with you about anything. I have not refused to engage you or to engage you"any further." I just do not wish to argue with you. A chess player should think several moves ahead in preparation for what's coming or for what might come in order to increase his or her tactical advantage against his or her opponent so that by the end game the superior development of his or her pieces (and pawns) on the chessboard lead to a collapse of the defenses as well as a weakening of the offense brought against him or her by the opponent and an eventual win in the offing, which is something you would know or ought to know.
I play this game and my wife is a superior chess player and maybe you are, too; frankly, I like to play her when she's sleepy because a win is a win even if your opponent is hardly conscious for she should have said "No" when I say "let's play a game," if she wasn't ready to play. It is typically hard for me to throw her game into a topspin, and obtaining a win against her is an extraordinary undertaking, so in six straight games, maybe I've won one of them. I believe I have a much better chance if someone other than she should be the one moving the pieces on the other side of the board (but I'm not telling her this).
See, I've engaged you here as well with regard to your reference to chess, but I don't want to talk to you about any of these things. I'd rather use you to talk to the lurkers that are reading this thread, my posts and your posts, which is what I am doing at this very moment. When I walk into a coffee shop where an apostate or two is present, I don't ignore what they say either: I engage them, too, not for their sake, but for the sake of those sitting nearby listening to the discussion being had, those sipping their coffee, tapping the keys on their notebooks or whatever they're doing, lurking the things being said, because no matter what it is that they might decide that want to discuss with me, I will always seek to turn the discussion into a blessing for those listening to it as I 'catch the wise in the their own cunning' as did God, who made Balaam fear to alter God's message in any way, so that they might gain plaudits for themselves, which is what you and others do here on JWN.
Now sometimes I'm successful in this and sometimes I'm not, but let me say again so that there is no misunderstanding: I'm not here to argue with you, nor with anyone else here.
@djeggnog
