The 'Last days' of the Watchtower Society - any truth in this?

by callitquits76 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    I repeat to factfinder:

    If you think of it in terms of MONEY or MEMBERS, STOP.

    People do things for much more base primal reasons. If you think people largely proceed out of the most INTELLIGENT decision, you don't understand much of anthropology. We are still basically animals, and we fool ourselves into thinking the things we decide upon are do to the best logic. NOT. Very few people can even begin to control the animal within us to even the slightest extent.

    It is what security, power, prestige, money and comfort and shelter that really make our decisions; then we verify that we made the correct decision by developing a "theology." :-))

    Every time I did an exit-counseling, once the person realized what REALLY mattered to them, and that neeed is not being met, they drop the cult like a hot potato. That's why you can't REALLY get a person out of a cult unless they see a better PRIMAL (not doctrinal) option they can obtain. That is how blind we are to our own makeup. That's also why I don't start with discussing DOCTRINE. It's ass-backwards and rarely works, no matter how many self-help books you read about getting people out. It's only necessary later to discuss it to fill in the confusion.

    Randy

    Randy

  • JustHuman14
    JustHuman14

    WT has nothing to do with the WT I was brought up in the 70's&80's. My doubts started shortly after the 'light' of the generation in 1995. In just 3 years I quit WT.

    Ever since 1995, 16 years past. What we have now is compete new generation dogma, that changed 3 times in just 14 years. I recall the preasure we had as JW's in the 80's that our preaching work was separating the sheep like ones from the goats. It was supposed to be a life saving work. So for 76 years our preaching work went down the drain, since Jesus is the one who will do the separation.

    I have seen and the new light with the overlaping generation of the so called "annointed class"and keep this mind because I will come later on, on this point. I have cut complete ties with WT 6 years ago, and I was innactive for another 6 years. What I have seen through personal experience, since I might go once a year at the "Memmorial"due to my elderly JW's parents, is that people are still joining WT. I can tell that most people at my age(early 40's)75% left WT. I have seen educated people, including doctors becoming JW'S for the last 6-9 years, and some others that indeed are educated people, and I was suprised to seem them joining the Cult.

    For those new ones they hardly know nothing about the generation of 1995, or anything at all that occured in WT for the last 130 years. Most of the WT elders are new and young so they have complete ignorance of their past. So those new that joined the CULT don't know anything about their failed prophecies or their flip flop doctrines. Besides WT has nothing to change since the final changes of the Generation and the "calling of the heavenly class". For the new ones they only have in mind that the end is near, and the overlaping generation is part of the sign of the end...it is complete different for what we have been taught. We had a lot of things to wait for. The King of North and South, the generation that it will no die, the outcry of peace and security, the U.N. that will establish a global non-faith law, just to mention a few. So we had a lot of staff that actually haven't took place and thus we start to doubt if WT is God's organization.

    So people we keep on joining the WT and some they will keep on leaving the WT. It is like a hotel that always have people check in and check out. Eventually when in a hotel the number of those checking in, will end, that means the management of the hotel will close the business, since there is no income.

  • Quirky1
    Quirky1

    Interesting thread..

  • factfinder
    factfinder

    @Dogpatch-

    Randy I think I understand what you are trying to say- people leave when their needs are not being met. That is why I left.

    I still believed the wt doctrine, but I was treated like an outsider in the cong.

    The cong I was first in (1976) was very warm and friendly to me. I went from having no friends to having many.

    I felt that I belonged there. I was given many priviledges of service- I had a place there.

    The WT printing facilities were huge and were expanding earthwide- "proof" of God's blessing on the org.

    Fast forward to 2005:

    For many years I had no friends in the cong.

    I was given no service priveledges- in all my years in that cong. I was never even used in a demonstration during the service meeting!

    I was left out, not invited to cong get togethers (which were rare anyway) or to people's homes for get togethers.

    The wts was continually downsizing- where is the "proof" of Jehovah's blessing on the org.?

    I was unhappy and felt alone at the meetings. I still believed jws had the truth. But my needs were not being met. After years of being unhappy there I just stopped going altogether.

  • factfinder
    factfinder

    @JustHuman14-

    You reminded me of things I had forgotten about! Yes, in the eighty's we had the king of the north vrs the king of the south, the cry of peace and security ( I was afraid armageddon would come in 1986- that was the UN's International year of peace)-the UN was going to soon make an earth wide move against religion- none of it took place and it just all faded away.

    The generation that will not pass away has been abandoned in favor of an overlapping generation. My great grandfather was alive when Brother franz was and I met brother Franz so me and my grandfather are the same generation? I don't think so!

    EVERYTHING is different now with the jws then it was in the 70's and 80's- and this new gb is now in full control. More changes are due to come.

    And yea so many new ones have no idea what was taught before.

    But will enough feel, as Randy says- that their needs are not being met, and so leave, or will there always be more new ones to keep everything growing?

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    FACTFINDER - you say,

    Randy I think I understand what you are trying to say- people leave when their needs are not being met. That is why I left.

    I still believed the wt doctrine, but I was treated like an outsider in the cong.

    The cong I was first in (1976) was very warm and friendly to me. I went from having no friends to having many.

    I felt that I belonged there. I was given many priviledges of service- I had a place there.

    The WT printing facilities were huge and were expanding earthwide- "proof" of God's blessing on the org.

    Fast forward to 2005:

    For many years I had no friends in the cong.

    I was given no service priveledges- in all my years in that cong. I was never even used in a demonstration during the service meeting!

    I was left out, not invited to cong get togethers (which were rare anyway) or to people's homes for get togethers.

    The wts was continually downsizing- where is the "proof" of Jehovah's blessing on the org.?

    I was unhappy and felt alone at the meetings. I still believed jws had the truth. But my needs were not being met. After years of being unhappy there I just stopped going altogether.

    EXACTLY what I mean. Who would join or stay in it if their PRIMAL needs (those were what you were talking about) are not being met? Maybe a few like Christian Scientists. :-))

    What idiot is going to put up with all their crap like they are dishing out now for long (other than to avoid family shunning)? Because they don't want to believe in the Trinity?? NOT. They can NOT believe in the Trinity at home! :-))

    Randy

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    As was said, the Watchtower keeps changing doctrine. But I am really referring to the Watchtower of 1916 to now in terms of PRIMAL influence and hurtful practices that make them a cult. POWER HUNGER.

    Of course they can change doctrines, they are just ideas in their heads! Witnesses really no longer give a damn about doctrine. They've lost their ability to argue with any credibility, so they have no POWER over the householder, and POWER is a PRIMAL NEED for a predatory creature like man. If people make you a laughingstock all over the internet and Youtube, you look for another source of power.

    If they start being kind, help others, quit lying, don't say they are the only true religion and you will die, etc. then they are really not the same Watchtower, from a primal and cultic standpoint.

    Like THAT'S going to happen anyway! LOL

    Randy

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    coco, I'm just an evolving Dogz. :-))

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    It seems there will always be new ones coming into the organization. The congregation gets excited for the new ones,,and then the new ones feel excited for the welcome and seeming valued,,everyone calls each other 'brother' or 'sister.' The new brothers feel valued and needed, appreciated at least at first, to become M.S. or eventually elders. New females to become pioneers. Everyone loves to get attention, value and appreciation. People like to be considered by their peers as "good" people. The New World is a comin, it's comin' is nigh. Being in love is so grand, in love with their religion!

    Then, the religion honeymoon stage. Within a few years, five or ten, honeymoon is over and endurance mode sets in. At 20 years, many are not happy, but don't want to divorce from their religion. "No where else to go" syndrome sets in. They are stuck.

    Most kids raised in the organization never get that "high" of a new convert. To most it's drudgery from the start, as they learned they must just obey. Some go along for a while till they get older and realized it never gave them a fulfillment of any sort.

  • neverendingjourney
    neverendingjourney
    If you think of it in terms of MONEY or MEMBERS, STOP.

    Ray Franz said in COC that the there were 2 primary motivating forces behind the GB's actions:

    1. Numbers (i.e., membership increases) and

    2. The need to uphold traditional policies.

    I would give the numbers-game a little more credit than you do.

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