In my "study" with JW's, we're in ch 7 of the "Bible Teach" book. We did pars 17-20 last week. This week, the CO is in town, and my conductor is having him sit in. We will pick up at par 21. Can anyone suggest some ideas to help me cut through the haze?
CO will sit in on my "study" this week: any suggestions?
Can anyone suggest some ideas to help me cut through the haze?
What difference does it make if a CO makes an appearance or not, this guy is being financialy looked after
by the WTS to support the WTS. Contrived bullshit from him or a speaker at a Hall is still the same contrived Bullshit.
Go along with their bullshit or be muzzled and kicked out by them, thats their game, not yours.
A salesman is a sales man either pushing vacuums, cars or religion, but you can expect that they will bullshit to create a sale.
Define what you hope to gain by this "study." You won't rock the C.O.'s world, so will there be something to gain?
what is it about? I don't have ANY of there books? To shake a CO... or the conductor.
Cancel the night before saying you are ill !! The CO can always go down the donught shop instead!! Really though why are you even studying with the JW'S? Can you just stop the study and tell them you have found what you are searching for in life and it don't include selling books door to door for the groverling body and cutting all your friends off!!! Think about it
HHG is thinking of you
ask them to explain the 144,000 starting with 1914 when all JWs expected to go to heaven. Ask when the earthly hope came out- 1935 they will say, "so everyone before 1935 had a heavenly hope?" yes they will say, "so how many would that have been?" Try and get a number- if they hum haw around - offer a number like 50,000 and see if they accept it.
"So after 1935, the only hope was an earthly one?" they will agree, "so the numbers of the 144,000 have been going down every year as we get closer to the end?" They will agree.
"Then why have the numbers of the 144,000 been going up in the last 20 years- about 5000 more than 20 years ago?"
if they say something about replacements, then ask, why would Jehovah pick so many of the 144,000 who he knew would be unfaithful?
They won't have good answer. Ask-- Why would Jehovah pick them so far in advance of the end, knowing they would be dead before they saw Armageddon? How many of the original anointed that Jesus selected when he took his heavenly throne are still alive? ( ask for the date that Jesus took his throne" -
so, if they were picked when Jesus came to his throne, those anointed would have to be over 110 years old now. That is impossible-
Why does Jesus need the anointed anyway? they might say something about directing the worldwide work of the WT org.
ask them how many of the anointed direct the work- that should lead into the faithful and discreet slave- who they are. Then ask them to show you in the WT the name of any JW or WT leader who admits they are one of the F&DS or the WT, in first person that says they are one of the F&DS- like= "Our next speaker is brother Kumquat, a member of the governing Body and one of the F&DS. " or, "Brother Slither has been a JW for 90 years and is one of the F&DS who directs the worldwide work of the watchtower org.". Ask them to call the WT headquarters and come back next week with the names of any F&DS they have on record. ( they will come back empty handed)
They will never find an admission in the publications where any JW or WT leader accepts the title of F&DS, so if they won't accept that title, why should we give it to them? It's not like discreet means a total secret!
This is the section you will be studying. If you want to ask some awkward questions, ask how there can only be 144,000 people deserving of a resurrection between when Jesus died, including ALL first century Christians and all JWs between the 1870s and 1935 when there are still 11,000 'anointed' now.
THE HEAVENLY RESURRECTION
21 The Bible also refers to another kind of resurrection, one to life as a spirit creature in heaven. Only one example of this type of resurrection is recorded in the Bible, that of Jesus Christ.
22 After Jesus was put to death as a human, Jehovah did not allow His faithful Son to remain in the grave. (Psalm 16:10; Acts 13:34, 35) God resurrected Jesus, but not as a human. The apostle Peter explains that Christ was “put to death in the flesh, but . . . made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18) This truly was a great miracle. Jesus was alive again as a mighty spirit person! (1 Corinthians 15:3-6) Jesus was the first ever to receive this glorious type of resurrection. (John 3:13) But he would not be the last.
23 Knowing that he would soon return to heaven, Jesus told his faithful followers that he would “prepare a place” for them there. (John 14:2) Jesus referred to those going to heaven as his “little flock.” (Luke 12:32) How many are to be in this relatively small group of faithful Christians? According to Revelation 14:1, the apostle John says: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.”
24 These 144,000 Christians, including Jesus’ faithful apostles, are raised to life in heaven. When does their resurrection take place? The apostle Paul wrote that it would occur during the time of Christ’s presence. (1 Corinthians 15:23) As you will learn in Chapter 9, we are now living in that time. So those few remaining ones of the 144,000 who die in our day are instantly resurrected to life in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:51-55) The vast majority of mankind, however, have the prospect of being resurrected in the future to life in Paradise on earth.
25 Yes, Jehovah really will defeat our enemy death, and it will be gone forever! (Isaiah 25:8) Yet, you may wonder, ‘What will those resurrected to heaven do there?’ They will form part of a marvelous Kingdom government in heaven. We will learn more about that government in the next chapter.
Cross post moshe. Great minds.
Define what you hope to gain by this "study."
I'm going through it because I have a friend who is a JW. I've been trying to understand the real meaning behind the words she uses when we interact. Personally, I think the JW thing is no more legitimate than those tabloid papers with things like "batboy" on the cover. However, people do get duped by it, and I am trying to become literate not only in their doctrines but in their recruitment tactics - which require firsthand personal interaction. I wouldn't bother if there wasn't someone in my life directly affected by it. Now that I have been learning more of what JW's are about, as I go back over emails my friend and I have exchanged and the conversations we've had, the meaning behind her words is becoming more clear. Here are a couple of other threads where I explained myself when people asked why I am bothering to "study" the JW's.