How Important is knowing the Truth, Really? (page 3)

Terry

In the case of Christian "Truth" it is the foundation which destroys everything built on top.

The foundation "seemingly" is getting to the correct "meaning" of the written words of Scripture.

That is a false premise.

The REAL foundation is that there IS NO written word.

Without the actual written word of the autograph manuscripts there can be no inerrancy.

Without inerrancy you lose the bedrock certainity of inspiration and the guiding, invisible hand of Truth preserved.

Those uncorrupt original words of Jesus and his Apostles don't exist! They are lost forever.

How can we argue over meaning without the words themselves??

We can't.

And yet we always have and continue to do.

For 2,000 + years!

Everything the Catholic Church set loose in the world was similar to what the Governing Body today does at Bethel. A group of men sit around and come up with things and pass them off as guidance from above.

How has that worked out for you?

All Scripture---every last shred---is some kind of reconstruction. You can't get interpreted TRUTH from guesses about who said what!

Martin Luther told us and the world of Protestantism we ONLY needed the bible itself.

Thousands of bad guesses followed. They are called "denominations."

They are men making guesses and calling it inspired TRUTH.

Get off the Merry-Go-Round or you'll spend the rest of your days dizzy and disoriented!

thetrueone

The people that followed Jim Jones and his ministry all thought that he was the Truth and guiding light, unfortunately he incited more than 800

of his Truth seeking followers to commit suicide.

Likewise the WTS./JWS has incited even more of its Truth seeking followers to commit suicide by refusing a blood transfusion

and those numbers now number into the thousands and that number is still increasing every year.

So I would say it is important to know what is the Truth and not emotionally speculate on what is the Truth.

Religionists want people to emotionally speculate on the information that they provide, without critical reasoning or evaluation.

In doing so they can create an illusion of the real Truth with the intension to better and serve themselves.

peacefulpete

Rubbish: untold millions have lived whole lives in what others may consider ignorance, blissfully.

Blissfully? Really? Are you perhaps romanticizing primative civilizations a bit. Short lifespans, tenuous food supllies, contaminated water, parasites, tribal wars over resources, infant mortality, etc... No, knowledge is not rubbish, knowledge is the best thing we humans have and can pass on.

But since the thread seems to have intended TRUTH to mean some alleged revealed secret from the numinous world, I have to agree that kind of knowledge we can do without.

myelaine

dear Terry...

you said: "All Scripture---every last shred---is some kind of reconstruction. You can't get interpreted TRUTH from guesses about who said what!"...

Because we don't have the originals but copies of the originals doesn't mean that what we have is guesses and speculation. we can count on the accuracy in the bible as far as religious faith and morals. some people rely on less accuracy when taking medications prescribed by a doctor who has to wait for test results to be sure that you even have the condition he treated!

Having faith in God and Jesus by way of what is written in the bible requires trust and you said yourself that you don't have that kind of trust...but honestly, to judge that everyone from God on down to the apostles and the church of today is just out to stick it to you and your life is...ummm...paranoid delusional...(there I said it)

love michelle

slimboyfat

I wasn't thinking about primitive peoples without access to the benefits of scientific progress. No arguments there. I was thinking more specifically about the 'truth' in relation to what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. I have just been to a funeral of an old person who lived all their life as a Jehovah's Witness. They had a full life, with many friends, lots of interests, and a full range of experiences. I cannot think of a single way in which their life would have been improved by knowing the 'truth' about when Jerusalem fell, how the flood could not have happened, why evolution is true, the history of the Watchtower Society, or any of the other 'truths' ex-Jehovah's Witnesses consider so important.

dssynergy

I think we won't know the truth of things until after everything is said and done....that said, I think there are things that can be considered - as far as spirituality is concerned "spiritual principals" that are found in most spiritual practices (i.e. reciprocity, love, karma, etc)...anything beyond this - is speculation. We can read the holy books and interpret them to the best of our ability - no matter, we are imperfect, and until it's all over, we won't really know what everything meant....

I've said for years I was an agnostic JW...now I'm an agnostic fader...

my .02 cents...

DS

itsibitsybrainbutbigenoughtosmellarat

The question is not easily answered. But untruth is worth knowing and identifying because there is always greed and domination at the end of it. True freedom or as close as we can get to it, is perhaps in identifying what falsehoods there are out there, and this enables you to avoid being a captive of others wishes and desires. It is like being a "savvy shopper". The pursuit of truth or knowledge will never end.

itsi..

Terry

Because we don't have the originals but copies of the originals doesn't mean that what we have is guesses and speculation. we can count on the accuracy in the bible as far as religious faith and morals. some people rely on less accuracy when taking medications prescribed by a doctor who has to wait for test results to be sure that you even have the condition he treated!

It is precisely because we don't have the originals that what we do have IS GUESSes and SPECULATION. Further, it isn't reconstruction from mere copies of originals because we don't even have that! No first generation copies exist either.

The foundation of original writings was ORAL, you'll recall. So, even the original manuscripts were distillations of verbal communication best described as hearsay.

A pharmacist will not fill a prescription from a doctor unless they can see the original slip in his own handwriting. You can't walk in with YOUR recopied version and get the pills!

You can't offer less than best evidence (originals) in a court of law without stipulation either.

A recopy of a third and fourth generation verbal remembrance is the best we have which clearly indicates God Almighty was NOT INTERESTED in preserving anything written as a guide for pure worship!

Having faith in God and Jesus by way of what is written in the bible requires trust and you said yourself that you don't have that kind of trust...but honestly, to judge that everyone from God on down to the apostles and the church of today is just out to stick it to you and your life is...ummm...paranoid delusional

You miss the point!

We only KNOW what we (think we) KNOW about God and Jesus because of the reconstructions!

Our faith is colored by that. It is tainted by that. It is corrupted by that.

God and the Apostles had nothing to do with the reconstructions or misleading misrepresentations! The Catholic Church tried always to keep

Scripture on the down-low and pump up their own Tradition and Authority instead.

The burning at the stake of Bible translators by the Church is something you might ponder.

The Authority of Official Orthodoxy ruined Christianity and continues to run rampant in Jehovah's Witnesses Governing Body.

There is simply no "there" there to interpret.

darth frosty

For some reason this made me think of a quote by anthony de mello the 1st 2 really fit.

As soon as you look at the world through an ideology you are finished. No reality fits an ideology. Life is beyond that. That is why people are always searching for a meaning to life… Meaning is only found when you go beyond meaning. Life only makes sense when you perceive it as mystery and it makes no sense to the conceptualizing mind.
Anthony de Mello Quotes
It is a great mystery that though the human heart longs for Truth, in which alone it finds liberation and delight, the first reaction of human beings to Truth is one of hostility and fear!
Anthony de Mello Quotes
There is only one cause of unhappiness: the false beliefs you have in your head, beliefs so widespread, so commonly held, that it never occurs to you to question them.
Anthony de Mello Quotes
As you identify less and less with the "me", you will be more at ease with everybody and with everything. Do you know why? Because you are no longer afraid of being hurt or not liked. You no longer desire to impress anyone. Can you imagine the relief when you don't have to impress anybody anymore? Oh, what a relief. Happiness at last!
Anthony de Mello Quotes
Wisdom tends to grow in proportion to one's awareness of one's ignorance.
Anthony de Mello Quotes
Suffering points out that there is falsehood somewhere. Suffering occurs when you clash with reality. When your illusions clash with reality when your falsehoods clash with the truth, then you have suffering. Otherwise there is no suffering.
Anthony de Mello Quotes
People who want a cure, provided they can have it without pain, are like those who favour progress, provided they can have it without change.
Anthony de Mello Quotes

PSacramento

Well, if there is NO truth then ANYTHING we say means NOTHING.

How Important is knowing the Truth, Really?

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