Why babies go to hell (explanation)

by whereami 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    How about addressing the points in the video?

    I can't answer for anyone else, dear WAI (again, peace to you!), but when I realized that your title wasn't exactly what I thought it was (i.e., you weren't giving a valid explanation but attempting to provoke commentary based on the video), I decided, "Ummmm... no, no need to go there."

    Why even comment if you haven't taken a few minutes to watch it?

    Well, again, for me... the truthful response about the matter doesn't require watching the video. Or any video. So, I keep my comment brief and truthful. My primary comment was in response to dear tec's comment (peace to you, dear one!).

    May I ask... why are you taking offense that no one really wanted to watch your video? Did you really think your thread would be inundated with responses as a result of such a topic... by anyone, including the religious (of which some of us are not)? I realize that a lot of you don't have very much regard for "us"... and that's okay... but do you really believe some of us to be that... well, fanatical... that we will jump on and/or respond at great length to EVERY topic related to various "religous" beliefs? Dear one, that would be like on of us posting some assinine video about atheism and then calling YOU out on it. While I am sure there are some here who might do that, those of us believers who DID respond most probably wouldn't. Those who would... haven't seemed to respond at all and apparently don't intend to.

    Peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • tec
    tec
    My primary comment was in response to dear tec's comment (peace to you, dear one!).

    And I thank you for that. I had not considered those who ARE chosen/anointed before even their conception.

    Peace back to you :)

    Tammy

  • whereami
    whereami
    Why comment? Because I can pretty much determine that if you posted the link, it was an obvious attempt to provoke an emotional response from people. This appears to be your M.O. That is your perogative. I do not, however, need to be sucked into these sorts of emotional rants.

    If you don't need to be sucked into these sorts of emotional rants and feel that it was an obvious ploy on my part to provoke an emotional response because that was/is my M.O. why click on the thread then? I only thought the Jw's can read peoples thoughts and hearts. And yet you fell for my evil trick? Funny.

    Second, it is clear from Scripture that there is no clear indication whether babies go to heaven or hell, and this needed to be said based on your past posting history.

    I happen to agree. Hence my very first sentence was "This just doesn't sound correct." Believe it or not I do want to hear from the other side.

    As an aside I recently heard a podcast by John MacArthur (whom I deeply respect as a bible teacher) on the subject of babies going to heaven, which I thought was pure speculation and eisegesis. If anyone wishes to hear this teaching you can access it through iTunes.

    Would love to listen to it if you can point me to the specific title.

    See it wasn't that hard. Thanks for clicking again on this "evil thread".

  • whereami
    whereami
    May I ask... why are you taking offense that no one really wanted to watch your video? Did you really think your thread would be inundated with responses as a result of such a topic... by anyone, including the religious (of which some of us are not)? I realize that a lot of you don't have very much regard for "us"... and that's okay... but do you really believe some of us to be that... well, fanatical... that we will jump on and/or respond at great length to EVERY topic related to various "religous" beliefs? Dear one, that would be like on of us posting some assinine video about atheism and then calling YOU out on it. While I am sure there are some here who might do that, those of us believers who DID respond most probably wouldn't. Those who would... haven't seemed to respond at all and apparently don't intend to.

    Not really taking offence Shelby. Just perplexed that some are taking issue with the title/videos without even watching what points both of them make, and THEN address what I said was "This just doesn't sound correct". I ASKED for Christian assistance to the claims made on both videos. Nowhere did i say I agreed with them. But none the less I thank you for your input as always.

    Peace to you!

    To you as well.

    A slave of Christ,

    A slave of myself.

  • whereami
    whereami
    I have heard many testimonies of those who have seen their own infants and even the unborn in heaven.

    Stephen, really? Can you please, if you don't mind, eloborate on this. Sounds interesting. No scary actually.

  • whereami
    whereami
    From my understanding of Scripture, however, there is no clear bible verse that says whether or not babies go to hell or heaven when they die. It appears that Scripture is silent on this, and if Scripture is silent, then we should be also.
    XJW4ever is right on this. Scripture is silent on the specifics. Some quote, as in the 1st video above, that "all have sinned." Yet babies cannot sin. They are incapable of moral choices. To go to Hell is a moral choice.
    But they are in the mercy of a God that desires "all to be saved."
    Do they go to heaven, or some other place? We do not know, but "in my father's house there are many mansions."
    God is Love, reconcile THAT with Babies "going to hell" and then get back to me.
    Exactly. "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God"
    BTS

    I could understand what is being said here. I see your points. Like I said "This just doesn't sound correct". Thanks for your input Burn.

    So Burn, you would agree that the likes of Augustine of Hippo, John Calvin and the others mentioned on the second video including the Westminster Confession Of Faith to be completely wrong on this issue, correct?

  • GLTirebiter
    GLTirebiter

    Yes, I did see the videos and I too want back the ten minutes of life I spent doing so.

    The author refers to the answer in video #1, and dismisses that answer sarcastically. The answer is that baptism removes the stain of original sin, as stated in the Creed: "We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." With original sin forgiven and no concupiscence to commit sins of their own, babies do indeed go to heaven: not hell, not purgatory, not even Limbo (if you believe in that): because they have been freed from sin, they enter heaven.

    The author claims that there is no scriptural support for baptism forgiving original sin, ignoring John 20:21-23, where Jesus makes the Apostles his agents on Earth with the explicit authority to forgive sin:

    and he said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father sent me, so am I sending you." After saying this he breathed on them and said: "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, they are forgiven; if you retain anyone's sins they are retained."

    Jesus directly ordered that the Apostles should baptize, as told in Matthew 28:18-19:

    Jesus came up and spoke to them. He said "All authority in heaven and on earth have been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teach them to observe all the commands I gave you. And look, I am with you always; yes, even to the end of time."

    The author also stated that children don't have the ability to think and reason for themselves, that they could not choose to sin nor to accept baptism. That is true in the strict sense, but the child's parents have the authority--the moral duty--to make such decisions on their child's behalf. Just as the parents choose to vaccinate the child's body and to enroll them in a particular school, they can choose to vaccinate the child's soul with the grace of baptism and to enroll them in a particular religion. Religions practicing infant baptism also have a confirmation of that baptism when the person is deemed mature enough to make such a choice for themselves, so adult members have accepted that baptism for themselves as well as their parents having made that choice when they were infants.

    Finally, let's deal with the case of children who could not be baptised before death--the stillborn babies, neonatal death, etc. The sacramental rite of baptism is not the only way a person can become baptised. If the person, or the person's parents in the case of a child, desire they should have the grace of baptism but cannot have the rite performed before death there can still be a baptism of desire. "Man sees those things that appear, but the Lord beholds the heart."

    Innocent babies going to hell? Only in the author's straw-man version of christianity!

  • tec
    tec
    Not really taking offence Shelby. Just perplexed that some are taking issue with the title/videos without even watching what points both of them make, and THEN address what I said was "This just doesn't sound correct"

    I think perhaps people were taking offense to the statement that babies go to hell... and also to the presumption of the author of the video, that Christians believe this.

    I'm sure that some denominations teach this.

    I think you've gotten lots of input from those here though, that none of us think this :) I've been uplifted by the responses, myself.

    Tammy

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    My apologies, dear WAI (again, peace to you!). I think I overreacted to your "offense" that some commented without actually viewing the video, which I think is okay. As dear tec (peace to you!) stated, the title itself raises some ire... and it seemed as if it was meant to. For me, it was the inclusion of the parenthetical. I most probably would have thought it a satirical thread otherwise. Very few "religious" folk responded; however, a couple/few of us who believers but unreligious did weigh in. I did see your "This can't be right," dear one, but given the sensitivity of the topic didn't really discern whether you were being straight or not. I now understand that you were.

    I admit that I took get a little sensitive myself when such things are attributed to "christians"... given that most who call themselves christians are not (and I say that with confidence, based on the history and track record of "christianity"). I am personally embarassed at what many who call themselves say... and do... and do NOT like being lumped in with them (which might be one of the reasons the WTBTS message initially resounded with me - i.e., being no part of the world, etc.).

    So, again, I apologize for MY sensitivity to your sensitivity regarding this thread... and warmly accept YOUR wish for peace... and send it right back to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Darth plaugeis
    Darth plaugeis

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIUmyTmD3N8

    I think Alice knew why...... 70's were very strange LOL

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit