Good ol Walter Martin, he did more to keep Witnesses Witnesses when they wanted to leave the Society than any person I can think of.
Probably so!
Is Liberal Christianity Smug and Arrogant?
by leavingwt 95 Replies latest jw friends
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leavingwt
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PSacramento
"As for the "take some and leave some" approach to the Bible, the central question remains: if some parts of the Bible are false or unacceptable, what guarantee do we have that the other parts are true, or are of any special value? Thus the moment one admits that some parts of the Bible are untrue or unacceptable, the position of the Bible as the inspired word of God becomes very difficult to objectively defend."
"...If [a person can] use his own judgment to accept and reject biblical passages, why rely on the Bible at all?"
On the same token, if many parts of a scientific theory, liek evolution, come to be shwon to be incorrect, does that mean that ALL of it is?
No, of course not.
Nowhere does the bible claim to be infalliable or error proof or a science book or anything other than a collection of writings.
Fact is that the moral teachings in the bible had nothing to do with whether "all the land was covered in water" in the flood account meant all the EARTH or all the land, just was a roman historian saying that Rome ruled the whole world would mean that the rest he wrote was of no use or not to be trusted.
You want guarantees to make it so YOU don't have to do the work in deciding what to believe in?
Good luck with that !
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myelaine
dear PSacramento...
you said: "Nowhere does the bible claim to be infalliable or error proof or a science book or anything other than a collection of writings."...
I don't know how precise the wording has to be in order for you to accept the claim...but the Bible IS the only book that claims to speak the words and WORD of Almighty God...do you ascribe more honour to the "thoughts" of your head than those of the original "teachers" of the doctrine and why? (is it because you don't believe the gospel)
it's probably been a few years but perhaps you can tell us how you aquired your faith...give us a reason for "it" if you could.
love michelle
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myelaine
my faith came by reading the bible without questioning what it said...I didn't think that moses tried to work out the science of the water parting before he made his way through it...and I guess I took my cue from him. I believe that the bible is outrageous in its claims for a reason...and the reason can be summed up in this scripture."without faith it is impossible to please God." the bible also says that the awesome God is revealed from faith to faith....now if you don't have faith to believe the original "faith"...has the awesome God been truly revealed to you...or simply a copy in which a promise becomes nothing but quite ordinary...1 cor 2:9-10
love michelle
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tec
To answer the opening question, I'm sure there are arrogant liberal Christians, just as there are arrogant fundamentalist Christians. So in general, I can't answer that question.
But I don't think, that in general, liberal christianity can say we're doing it right, you all were doing it wrong... haha... (I don't think that many of them would say this anyway) because most of them would have done the exact same thing as the fundamentalists, had they been born five hundred or a thousand years ago. But they now have a) the freedom to believe as a liberal Christian, and b) so much more information at their fingertips regarding bible canon, how things are translated... actually, just the fact that they have the opportunity to READ the bible themselves is a huge thing in breaking the power that church leaders held over the masses.
Now, I also believe that some would have believed this way throughout the ages, anyway, but they would have been the heretics burned at the stake, or they would have kept their thoughts quiet.
Tammy
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PSacramento
I don't know how precise the wording has to be in order for you to accept the claim...but the Bible IS the only book that claims to speak the words and WORD of Almighty God..
Where?
The bible is also the only book that warns of the people that wrote it/wrote in it writing what they wanted and saying it is the "word of God".
it's probably been a few years but perhaps you can tell us how you aquired your faith...give us a reason for "it" if you could.
My faith came to me from the Word of God, my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.
Where else would it come from?
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myelaine
dear PSacramento...
you said: "My faith came to me from the Word of God, my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ."..."Where else would it come from?"...
Jesus Himself had to learn from the OT and He also stated that what He learned He learned from His Father...I believe that He learned from reading the OT and the aid of the Holy Spirit?...as, I think, John 8:17-18 attests. I have experienced that it is the Father who draws you to Jesus Christ so if you don't have faith in God the Father to begin with then how would He accomplish that?
...to take this a bit farther...at the very least wouldn't it be YOUR internal "law" that would lead you to Jesus Christ and the need for forgiveness and salvation...romans 4:13-15
love michelle
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PSacramento
Jesus Himself had to learn from the OT and He also stated that what He learned He learned from His Father...I believe that He learned from reading the OT and the aid of the Holy Spirit?...as, I think, John 8:17-18 attests. I have experienced that it is the Father who draws you to Jesus Christ so if you don't have faith in God the Father to begin with then how would He accomplish that?
Jesus had to learn the very words he gave those that told the stores before the OT was even written?
John 8:
The Validity of Jesus’ Testimony
12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”
14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”
“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
Notice that the Jews, that kept the "OT" and its every word did NOT KNOW God.
...to take this a bit farther...at the very least it would be YOUR internal "law" that would lead you to Jesus Christ and the need for forgiveness and salvation...romans 4:13-15
The HS led me to My Lord and in Him is my salvation, if it be his will, my faith is in My Lord and My Father.
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designs
The question that progressive theologians are asking and contemplating is why would a loving God make people jump through hoops and mysteries to find him or to be a good person. We don't shroud lessons on honesty, etiquette, and hospitality in some hoop jumping maze with our children.
It should be simple and available. People need to understand and do X then explain x in as simple of terms and actions as possible. To many passages in the NT say the opposite and smack of elitism which the main Religious bodies have taken and run with.
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PSacramento
I don't know what hoops you are speaking of, sorry.