Good work, Pr0ner!!!
I wish that someone would tackle the next JW who comes to their door with the paganism actually INCORPORATED into the bible and into Jewish and Christian beliefs, however....
I've always wondered what a JW's reaction would be, if one pointed out that:
It is likely that the "Twelve Tribes" of "Israel" were actually based upon the TWELVE SIGNS OF THE ZODIAC - and some of the symbols come from the CHINESE Zodiac, as well as the Greco-Egyptian-Roman Zodiac....
12 signs of the Chinese Zodiac...
Rat Ox Tiger Hare Dragon Snake Horse Ram Monkey Rooster Dog Pig
12 signs of the Grecian/Egyptian Zodiac - derived from the Grecian Zodiac - which the Egyptians borrowed... http://www.egyptianmyths.net/zodiac.htm
Ram (Aries) Bull or Ox (Taurus) Twins (Geminii) Cancer (Crab or Scarab beetle) Leo (Lion) Aquarius (water-bearer) Virgo (Virgin or Isis) Libra (Scales or the holder of scales/weights) Scorpio (Scorpion) Sagittarius (centaur, archer, with a scorpion's tail) Capricorn (goat with the body of a fish or seal) and Pices (two fishes; which is also the symbol of several sea-goddesses...)
And the 12 tribe of Israel from Genesis chapter 49, verses 1-28, Holman Christian Standard bible....
(verse 3) "Reuben, you are my firstborn.... Turbulent as water, you will no longer excel...."
(verse 5-7) "Simeon & Levi are brothers; their knives are vicious weapons. ...For in their anger they kill men and on a whim they hamstring oxen..." These count as TWO tribes, by the way...
(verse 8-12) "Judah...is a young lion - ... he croushes; he lies down like a lion and like a lioness - who wants to rouse him? ..."
(verse 13) "Zebulun will live by the seasore and wll be a harbor for ships..."
(verse 14) "Issachar is a strong donkey lyig down between the saddlebags..."
(verse 16-17) "Dan will judge his people...He will be a snake by the road, a viper beside the path..."
(verse 19) "Gad will be attacked by marauding bands, but he will attack their heels..."
(verse 20) "Asher's food will be rich, and he will produce royal delicacies..."
(verse 21) "Naphtali is a doe set free that bears beautiful fawns..."
(verse 22-24) "Joseph is a fruitful vine,...The archers attacked him, shot at him, and were hostile toward him. Yet his bow remained steady..."
(verse 27) "Benjamin is a wolf; he tears, in the morning he devours the prey..."
Now, let's do some matching up... Keeping in mind that the Israelites probably didn't become privy to the higher secrets of astrology in the lands where they were dominated or held captive...
"Reuben" corresponds with the water-bearer, Aquarius.
"Simeon and Levi" don't seem to correspond with any symbols, but that's only within the Genesis count of the "12" tribes; I'll have to find other listings of the tribes with their "totem" symbols... Although the reference to their "hamstring oxen" may connect them with the Ox in the Chinese Zodiac... May also connect with the rold of the Persian deity Mithra or Mithras, who symbolically slays a celestial "bull"....
"Judah" obviously corresponds with Leo - or the Tiger in the Chinese Zodiac...
"Zebulun" is a bit of a puzzle... If any of the other Zodiac signs correspond with the sea, water, storms... I'll have to research further...
"Issachar" would probably correspond with the Horse in the Chinese Zodiac...
"Dan" - is the one which first drew my attention to the similarities between the "12 tribes" of Israel and the Zodiac symbols - corresponds with the Snake in the Chinese Zodiac. May also correspond with the Capricorn symbol... I'll have to research further...
"Gad" is a bit of a puzzle... It is significant, however, that he is spoken of as attacking marauders "at their heels" - which would indicate a low-level or ground-dwelling symbolic animal... Perhaps the Dragon in the Chinese Zodiac, the underground "dragons" thought by the Chinese to cause earthquakes...
"Asher" is also a puzzle... I'll have to research further...
"Naphtali" is really weird. Jacob's comparing his SON to a FEMALE deer... The Ram occurs in BOTH Zodiacs, but is a MALE deer or sheep...
"Joseph" seems a puzzle at first, until one reads "Yet his bow remains steady..." That corresponds with Sagittarius - a 'centaur' and archer...
"Benjamin" would probably correspond with the Dog in the Chinese Zodiac....
However, the fact that the bible mentions "12" tribes, but that ten of these "12" tribes disappeared later in the history of the Hebrews, is significant. It appears to me, that the Israelite peoples eventually realized the pagan origins of their "12 tribe" arrangement, and eliminated that arrangemen because it was loosely based upon the 12 signs of the Zodiac.
These are really rough comparisons, and I haven't taken into consideration the complex astrological positioning of each 'sign'... I'd need to look at ALL references to the 12 tribes that also reference their 'symbols', plus research the astrological positioning, to get a more accurate picture.
Then there's the "Rod of Asclepius", as described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius
"The rod of Asclepius (?; sometimes also spelled Asklepios or Aesculapius), also known as the asklepian,[1] is an ancient symbol associated with astrology, the Greek god Asclepius, and with medicine and healing. It consists of a serpent entwined around a staff. The name of the symbol derives from its early and widespread association with Asclepius, the son of Apollo, who was a practitioner of medicine in ancient Greek mythology. His attributes, the snake and the staff, sometimes depicted separately in antiquity, are combined in this symbol.[2] The Rod of Asclepius also represents the constellation Ophiuchus (or Ophiuchus Serpentarius), considered by some to be the thirteenth sign of the sidereal zodiac. ..."
Look familiar???? Check out that with Numbers 21: 4-9, wherein "Moses" mounted a "snake [image] and mount it on a pole...So Moses made a bronze snake and mounted it on a pole....."
So, "god" commanded "Moses" to create a pagan symbol, the "Rod of Asclepius", to 'save' the Israelites from the deadly snake bites...
Another significant "pagan" belief incorporated into biblical beliefs - remember "Jesus" being in the "grave" for three days and three nights???
Some two thousand years BEFORE "jesus" supposedly spent 3 days and nights in the 'grave' before being resurrected, the Goddess Inanna spent THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS in the "underworld", before being 'rescued' by one of her subordinate demi-goddesses...
Then there's the Greek/Roman (and represented in other cultures...) god, Dionysys. This website: http://www.newsfinder.org/site/more/wine_born_in_greece/ mentions the imbibing of the wine as a representation of Dionysys' blood...
"Wine, a divine beverage, was the gift of Dionysus, which some say was his same blood. In particular in ancient Greece, for example, red wine was drunk at the bacchanals by the devotees of the god Dionysus in a symbolic ritual of his blood. It is significant that red wine is the colour of blood and wine emerged as the principal symbol of Dionysus, representing also the fullness of life. During the spring festival, the drinking of wine was the most prominent feature, representing the very presence of the god. ..." Which pre-dates the Christian mimicry of this ritual by many hundreds of years...
I could keep going, with the Israelites mistaking a volcanic eruption for the presence of their "god" - which may actually be a legend borrowed from the surrounding "pagan" nations or tribal groups; the Plinian eruption of Vesuvius that probably inspired much of the apocalyptic imagery of the book of Revelation, and vestiges of Goddess worship incorporated into both the Old Testament and New Testament, but I don't have time, right now...
At least I've given all of you a taste of what you might be able to use, at the door, next time a JW calls and talks to you about the pagan origins of Christmas....
Zid