Just how much of a SUCCESS is God..........so far? (page 6)

myelaine

dear designs...

there were sects/branches of judasim that each believed different things about what their religion taught about MAJOR issues...resurrection vs. no resurrection, so I don't know how study of tenents or practices of that era is going to change my perspective on the NT...

by the way, what is written in the OT is a major factor in the reason for my faith in the God of the jews...you may call Jesus a "character" and paul a "character" because of your unbelief but I have no reason to doubt the integrity of the NT writers who encouraged me by their faith (in the God of the jews) to believe in their God.

love michelle

p.s. our library can order in books from other libraries, fortunately ...I'll be wanting the haggada and the halakha, right? any other suggestions?

designs

Michelle- My unbelief, as you say, is in the records transmitted down known as the NT, it contains flaws so that we cannot know the real Rabbi Yeshua ben Joseph. It contains portrayals of Judaism that are not Judaism, that is a very hugh problem and resulted in the persecution of Jews that nearly drove them to extinction. That alone should give any reader pause and the desire to know the real history and beliefs of the Jewish people.

tec

that is a very hugh problem and resulted in the persecution of Jews that nearly drove them to extinction. That alone should give any reader pause and the desire to know the real history and beliefs of the Jewish people.

No, I have to say that anyone persecuting or killing the Jews is a person who neither read the NT nor knew Christ. Not in the least. There is nothing in there that says to persecute anyone, much less the Jews... just the opposite in fact.

Tammy

fokyc

On a scale of 1 to 10; zero

designs

Tammy-

With respect the inclusion of the phase 'His blood be upon us' in the Gospels set Popes, Martin Luther and his followers, John Calvin and his followers on a killing rampage against Jews. The Popes referred to our family in official Church prayer as 'the perfidy of the Jews', read the Anti-Semetic rantings of Luther and Calvin who called Jews 'Christ Killers'. It lasted for centuries.

There is so much concocted misinformation in the NT a person must take pause and consider what is being promoted. As I mentioned in another post just look at a verse from 'Paul' in 1 Cor.1:18-25 can you see the red flags. Can you identify 3 things that should make someone considering christianity as 'Paul' wants it to be understood with all of the red flags we can now see with respect to the Watchtower Society.

tec

Like I said, anyone can twist words to mean what they want to mean. If someone wants to find a reason to kill and to persecute someone, all they have to do is ignore Christ's words and then go ahead and twist a few scriptures. Most people don't read the bible; they just listen to what the few in charge of them have to say.

Christ taught: love your enemies; turn the other cheek; bless those who persecute you; forgive and don't judge... He who is without sin may cast the first stone... I could go on, of course. As for Paul... Paul believed that all of Israel would be saved. Paul wished that he would be cut off for the sake of his people. Paul taught the Gentiles not to lord it over the jews; because of the jews hardening (for a time) the gentiles were being given a chance to be brought into the kingdom as well.

No doubt some of those 'christians' taught persecution of jews. But they weren't listening to Christ or even to Paul when they did so. And even if someone said jews are christ-killers (they did hand him over to be killed)... Christ asked his father to forgive them, for they know not what they do. He never said... 'okay now all you who follow me, after I'm dead and risen, never mind that whole forgiveness part... chase 'em down and persecute them and then kill them'.

What Christian thinks he/she has the right to overturn that? No follower of Christ would think so.

Tammy

designs

Tammy-

Look at the history of western christianity for the past 1900 years they were getting their message of convertion or else from the Church Leaders who were reading the NT. The 'Love thy neighbor' slogan attributed to Jesus had actually been taught by the Jewish Sages for centuries. Paul's ideas about how Israel would be saved or how the Gentiles would be saved are duplicitous, as a Jew if he really were one, he knew that the human family was already taken care of by God, Jew and Gentile.

Look at the account in the Gospels of Lazarus, his sister tells Jesus she will see him again in the resurrection- guess what he's already taken care of, that one slipped by the Bishops who edited the NT and tacitly shows a human sacrifice would not be needed to do the very same thing that has already been taken care of..

Paul's whole premise that the Jews 'hardened their heart', or that now the Gentiles could be brought into the Kingdom of God is further proof this individual is not the Jew the NT leads people to believe he was.

Maybe someone else wants to tackle 1Cor.1:18-25 and discuss how Paul's propaganda is just like the Watchtower leaders and other Church Leaders.

Ding

<< Look at the account in the Gospels of Lazarus, his sister tells Jesus she will see him again in the resurrection- guess what he's already taken care of, that one slipped by the Bishops who edited the NT and tacitly shows a human sacrifice would not be needed to do the very same thing that has already been taken care of.. >>

Could it be that Jesus knew what it would cost him to fulfill his promise to Lazarus' sister?

PSacramento

1Corinthians 1:18-25

18 For the word of the cross is a foolishness to b those who 1 are perishing , but to us who 2 are being saved it is c the power of God .

19 For it is written,

“ a I will destroy the wisdom of the wise ,

And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside .”

20 a Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of b this age? Has not God c made foolish the wisdom of d the world?

21 For since in the wisdom of God a the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, b God was well-pleased through the c foolishness of the 1 message preached to d save those who believe.

22 For indeed a Jews ask for 1 signs and Greeks search for wisdom;

23 but we preach 1 a Christ crucified, b to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles c foolishness,

24 but to those who are a the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ b the power of God and c the wisdom of God.

25 Because the a foolishness of God is wiser than men, and b the weakness of God is stronger than men.

It is a direct attack NOT on knowledge but on those that proclaim to know it all.

Before Christ the cross was a symbol of the worse kind, after Christ it is a symbol of God's love and the Grace of God.

Those in "the know" didn't know that.

Paul mentions that Jews ask for signs and that Greeks search for wisdom ( perhaps here he even means the personification fo wisdom, Sofia) and to counter that, Christians preach FAITH in Christ and God.

All this passage is, is advice to put their ( the corinthians) trust in GOd and Christ and NOT in Man or man-run organizations.

SO how is that ANYTHING like what the WT advocates ???

thetrueone

Just how much of a SUCCESS is God..........so far?

Fail .... mankind should have never invented him , we would have been all better off now

Just how much of a SUCCESS is God..........so far?

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