Loftus: Are We Angry Atheists?

by leavingwt 237 Replies latest jw friends

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Yes, I agree with that assessment, Paul. I don't doubt religion has made progress within itself. And, you know, without "religious" individuals contributing to modern advancements, we would still probably be in the dark ages. But that is despite religious superstition, not because of it.
    Perhaps if folks in the iron age weren't so busy ascribing epilepsy to the superstitious "demonic posession", but instead labeling the condition as "unexplained", the period of time for unlearning their superstition would be nil. So arriving at a reasonable, scientific diagnosis might've come sooner.
    In cases where science posits some theory that conflicts with, say, the bible - or the church's perspective regarding a passage or passages - what then? Fundamentalist opposition to evolution being taught in schools is just one modern example.

    I think that religion has become more closed minded now then it was in the past.

    There are a few books that clear this issue and others up, Vox Days' "the irrational athiest" and DeSouza's "What's so great about Christianity".

    There are also books in specific about Christianity and science.

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    Would it be correct to talk about christian hate to?

    Like I said, the Brotherdan thread on his "christian" blog covers that pretty nicely -

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Could it be that atheists in this forum are distinguished from your run-of-the-mill atheist insofar as we are all characterised by some separate and distinct connection to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? This is the jehovahs-witness.net, after all. Could it also be that said atheists are more or less angry at the WTBTS for any number of reasons - it being the uninvited third party in my marriage over the last 33 years, in my case - and, since the proponents and adherents of the WTBTS equate their organisation to God himself, we atheists are by default angry at God in their eyes?

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    ^ In a great number of cases, yeah, I think so.

    James, those are mostly isolated or localized issues. Stepping back to the bigger picture.... let's consider the top three contenders: Can you see any reasons in which the spread of most Christian, Jewish, and/or Muslim faiths might impede man's progress in the grand scheme of things? Do these faiths not influence government, which affects both believer and non-believer alike?

    I'm not into politics but if a person's vote is determined by their faith instead of their reason, that could present an issue to me. I'd rather citizens practice critical thinking before they vote.

    Again, this is how I'm starting to view things but if there's something I'm overlooking (ie, alchemy, which I know little about), I'm all ears.

    I don't consider myself angry but I do have a certain disdain for religion. That doesn't mean I oppose spirituality or faith completely... just when it affects me or my family.

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    Can you see any reasons in which the spread of most Christian, Jewish, and/or Muslim faiths might impede man's progress in the grand scheme of things? Do these faiths not influence government, which affects both believer and non-believer alike?

    It is pure speculation, but it occurs to me that creating various faiths is pretty much a natural human tendency. In that sense, these faiths may have actually encouraged human progress in many ways, and held it back in other ways. But they have long been at the center of human intellectual life, including language, the arts, ancient science, medicine, and education.

    I have a feeling that without the various religions - good & bad as they are - society as we know it could not have developed. Atheism or agnosticism is still something of a minority in general society - growing, but not yet in the majority, correct?

    I for one would hate to do without Leonardo, Michelangelo, J.S. Bach, the great religious writings, the Acropolis, the Pyramids, and so on - even if I do not personally take on any of these faiths.

    I find it just a little arrogant on the part of atheists to suggest that the various faiths of humankind have really held back human progress.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    As we are discovering more and more older archelogical sites of ancient civilizations we are seeing that culture, civilization, progression and religion all progressed and lived "side-by-side" and at this point some have suggested that perhaps religion preceeded culture and civilization.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    I find it just a little arrogant on the part of atheists to suggest that the various faiths of humankind have really held back human progress.

    Why would it be "arrogant" to have a theory based on what one sees from religion, even if one's theory was ultimately wrong?

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Why would it be "arrogant" to have a theory based on what one sees from religion, even if one's theory was ultimately wrong?

    It would not be arrogant to just have the theory - but it would be arrogant to insist the theory had to be right - even in the face of all human history.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    I have a feeling that without the various religions - good & bad as they are - society as we know it could not have developed. Atheism or agnosticism is still something of a minority in general society - growing, but not yet in the majority, correct?

    Depends on your context. If you are American, then yes, because only 10% of the US population is estimated to be "without faith". If you are Dutch then there is a 40% probability that you are atheist, if Norwegian then there is a 70% chance. The secular movement is gaining ground just about everywhere, just not so much in the US.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Well now you've changed your verbiage from "suggest" to "insist". That aside, "all human history" as imprinted by religion is what would make a person have the theory in the first place.

    I love ancient churches, mosque, and art as much as anyone, but that doesn't give me an answer to questions like "was the beauty and/or social constructs worth the hatred-of-the-other that came along with religious belief?" or "what would exist if most peoples throughout history had not followed religions?".

    These are questions that (probably) can't be answered, so I'd agree that it would be foolish to insist on one view to the exclusion of others.

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