Loftus: Are We Angry Atheists?

by leavingwt 237 Replies latest jw friends

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    Which makes whether religion on the whole helped more than it hurt a moot point - one not worth getting angry or self-rightous over on either side.

    I don't see the need for anger or self-righteousness, either, but to make progress, don't we also consider history to identify and avoid patterns that hinder advancement?

    That the Catholic Church condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture" is one example in history. But in our time, some religionists would have evolution removed from public school textbooks if it contradicts whatever holy book they subscribe to. This is an issue that affects us NOW and impedes progress on multiple levels. Think of children who were raised in fundy or JW or Muslim environments... kids who could've gone to university and contributed to mans' advancement but did not, do not, will not.

    I find it just a little arrogant on the part of atheists to suggest that the various faiths of humankind have really held back human progress.

    I'm not at all saying faith in the past had no positive effect on mankind. I'm just wondering if we still need those leg braces... or if they're holding us up now. Think of little Forrest Gump.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    No coventing of the neighbours wife

    No Coventing of ANYTHIG that is thy neighbour ( doesn't belong to you).

    And all this time I thought that those two points above constitute the 10th Commandment in its entirety. Which version are you referring to?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch trials, Catholic/Anglican England 1500's, Crusades..

    All still pale in comparison to even just one Atheist psycho like Stalin or Mao.

    Those are fine examples of when the ideals of a religion ( Christianity in this case) are disregarded and the ambitions of Men are followed ( Except for the 1st crusades).

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "Sure we can "salad bar" religion and take what we need ( Laws, morals and ethics) and disreagrd the rest ( Theisim), but we still have to acknoweldge from where the "good stuff" came. ..."

    (PSacramento...)

    But ALL modern religions ARE "salad bar" religions!!! They are ALL conglomerates of beliefs from so-called "Pagan" religions -right down to the Muslims kissing that black volcanic or extra-terrestrial stone at Mecca and Christians believing that "Jesus" was in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights...

    "...but we still have to acknoweldge from where the "good stuff" came. ..."

    The "Good Stuff"???

    Much of the "Good Stuff" originated far back in time, during the periods of GODDESS worship - creation and use of tools, agriculture, domestication of animals, pottery, use of medicinal plants, semi-permanent dwellings and villages...

    Zid

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    And all this time I thought that those two points above constitute the 10th Commandment in its entirety. Which version are you referring to?

    Depending on how the passages are read :

    Division of the Ten Commandments by religion/denomination
    CommandmentJewish (Talmudic)*Anglican, Reformed, and other ChristianOrthodox ChristianCatholic, Lutheran**
    I am the Lord your God1preface11
    You shall have no other gods before me21
    You shall not make for yourself an idol22
    Do not take the name of the Lord in vain3332
    Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy4443
    Honor your father and mother5554
    You shall not kill/murder***6665
    You shall not commit adultery7776
    You shall not steal****8887
    You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor9998
    You shall not covet***** your neighbor's wife1010109
    You shall not covet***** anything that belongs to your neighbor10
  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Ok, so you're either a Catholic or Lutheran. Whatever. My take is the stuff that didn't have anything to do with worshipping this jealous and insecure God was already in place. That's the point. Religion didn't invent it. Religion took it and claimed it to be its own.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    That the Catholic Church condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture" is one example in history.

    Actually, this is not accurate. Copernicus, by the way, was a Catholic priest.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus

    Here is a little something to challenge the prevailing view (which you share):

    In 1533, Johann Widmanstetter, secretary to Pope Clement VII, explained Copernicus' heliocentric system to the Pope and two cardinals. The Pope was so pleased that he gave Widmanstetter a valuable gift.

    The Big Bang theory and the science of genetics were also elaborated by Catholic priests (LeMaitre and Mendel).

    BTS

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    All still pale in comparison to even just one Atheist psycho like Stalin or Mao.

    Operative word is "psycho", PSacramento, the adjective is irrelevant. It is important to separate the evil intentions of men like Stalin and Mao from the vast power they weilded in achieving them. Both men had twentieth century technology at their disposal. Do you think the Crusaders would have hesitated one second from completely vaporising the millions in Islam if they had the atomic bomb at their disposal? How naiive.

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    Me: That the Catholic Church condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture" is one example in history.
    BTS: Actually, this is not accurate.

    Which part? (And I'm not saying universal heliocentrism is accurate but Copernican theory was closer than geocentrism.) So how is my statement inaccurate?

    Look it up the quote if you wish: Sharratt (1994, pp.127–131), McMullin (2005a)

    BTS: Copernicus, by the way, was a Catholic priest.

    Great. That still doesn't conflict with my statement that "religious individuals in superstitious cultures have aided the advancement of man in spite of their superstition, not because of it." The same thought applies to your challenge.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Let's not forget Galileo, who was a genuinely pious Roman Catholic but who was tried by the Inquisition, found guilty of heresy, forced to recant his amazing discoveries and confined to house arrest for the rest of his life. Religion and science, indeed.

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