Marital Due and the KS

by yknot 96 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • yknot
    yknot

    ......how is one partner holding out with malice intent showing love?

    I would see it as a lack of love so the whole 'love alone' is diminished.......

    Again I think it would have been prudent to just nip this sucker in the bud and make it a reproofing matter!

    I think that most JWs would be a whole lot happier and marriages much stronger if sincere nookie was upped!

    Actually I think I wanna suggest this a bit further and say the KS-15 (cuz that is about how long the ks10 will hold up with its cheap quality) should mandate in the spirit of the Israelites mandating reproduction, sex quotas for the year of those able-bodied married folks

    Just Sayin......

  • Hiding Questioner
    Hiding Questioner

    I am still trying to get through this long Thread but the following....

    "All three pronouncements (Marking™ is the exception because they don't announce people as being Marked™) are dealt with in the same manner. The individual is treated like $h!t, gossipped about and viewed with suspicion, even if the outcome of the hearing is inconclusive and no decision is reached, the person can be 'convicted by gossip mill' - I've seen it happen. I've been the subject of the JW gossip mill and know the way it can destroy your life."

    ....caught my attention because, in the Brotherdan thread (which I guess I may have hijacked, sorry!), I said the following, which I think fits much better in this conversation and think it is worth repeating. Here it is...

    "One thing that no one seems to have commented on is what happens to a JW when and if his wife leaves him. In the JW religion the pain one is suffering is magnified by the knowlege that you cannot get on with your life. Even though we are the victim it is the victim that must pay a double painful price in that we are labelled through slander first and then prevented from entering into any other meaningful relationship unless we forgo all self-respect and human dignity by resorting to actions soley to meet the "two witness" rule that I personally found offensive, dangerous, costly, time consuming and too painful to accept. So, I was told to live my life unnaturally with the supposed consolation that my ex was not only going to die at the Big A (which, because I loved her, did not want to happen) and that she was responsible for my ultimate death at the Big A once I entered into another marriage."

    HQ

  • Hiding Questioner
    Hiding Questioner

    Opps! Not sure what just happened.

    Reposting the correct portion of bad paragraph...

    "One thing that no one seems to have commented on is what happens to a JW when and if his wife leaves him. In the JW religion the pain one is suffering is magnified by the knowlege that you cannot get on with your life. Even though we are the victim it is the victim that must pay a double painful price in that we are labelled through slander first and then prevented from entering into any other meaningful relationship unless we forgo all self-respect and human dignity by resorting to actions soley to meet the "two witness" rule that I personally found offensive, dangerous, costly, time consuming and too painful to accept. So, I was told to live my life unnaturally with the supposed consolation that my ex was not only going to die at the Big A (which, because I loved her, did not want to happen) and that she was responsible for my ultimate death at the Big A once I entered into another marriage."

    HQ

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    The best cure for the lack of dues?

  • yknot
    yknot

    ....Washer Machine Spin Cycle, after reading a racy romance novel....

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    I don't think that technique works very well for boys, yknot...

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    Or just do like every dude told me when I was younger, and they still tell me today, "Misery, whatever you do, don't get married." Before I got appointed it was, "preMisery, whatever you do, don't get married." Medicare aged old men tell me, "Don't get old, and don't get married."

    Its funny how the very arrangements designed to make a people clean in God's eyes are the very thing that leads them to a path of misery. Christopher Hitchens said religion places impossible demands on people that create more problems. Like Paul said, those choosing to get married will have tribulation. Maybe thats why he never got married. He probably took a look at Peter, and Peter's mother in law staying with Peter, and said the heck with that! I'd rather get shipwrecked, inprisoned, tortured, and martyred, than get married.

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @sd-7

    My wife saw it on my computer screen and went pretty ballistic, thought I was suggesting that I should have the green light for adultery because she'd been holding out for awhile, apparently due to a months-long illness that she never sought treatment for.

    I don't follow this reasoning at all, but ok.

    I thought it highlighted the seriousness of sex within marriage, more than the obligation of any one person to provide the 'due'.

    And this IMO the QfR article does!

    It's sad that this stuff even needs discussion. Good couples should be able to talk this kind of stuff out. And not have elders telling women to give it up or blaming them for adultery, because adultery happens because of more than just no sex, if you ask me...

    Well, I think "this stuff" does deserve discussion and thoughtful consideration, for not every "good couple" comes from a background where things like this can be discussed between them. (The wife, for example, would likely speak about the matter with their mother or with an aunt to whom she is close about her husband, or the husband might approach his father or his favorite uncle about what he's feeling about his wife.)

    But there are reasons that certain things may not have been divulged to one's spouse before the marriage that may be contributing to the physical and/or emotional problems that one or the other of them is having when it comes to sex with their mate that a mature brother or sister in the congregation might be approached by them to discuss, and it will take courage to do this, for some may unknowingly be suffering from one of the many diseases that flow from oral sex and/or anal sex in which they engaged during their youth. With oral sex, there's chlamydia, chronic Hepatitis B, cytomegalovirus, genital herpes, genital warts, Hepatitis B, Herpes simplex, HIV/AIDS, pelvic inflammatory disease, pubic lice, sexually transmitted diseases and scabies. With anal sex comes all of the above, including amoebiasis, cryptosporidiosis, E. coli infections, giardiasis, gonorrhea, granuloma inguinale, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis C, human papilloma virus (HPV), Kaposi's sarcoma-associated herpesvirus (HHV-8), lymphogranuloma venereum, syphilis, trichomoniasis, salmonellosis, shigella and tuberculosis, and this past behavior may only come to be divulged to one's partner after the marriage day. And whether that mature brother or sister approached should be an elder or not, there will definitely be the concern that he or she might be a gossip, and that your medical issue or medical history may become common knowledge to those that are expert at listening to gossip.

    Elders do not have the authority to tell women to "give it up" and they certainly have no right to be "blaming them" for the decision by their spouse to commit adultery. God's word says, that "each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death." (James 1:14, 15) And I would remiss to not point out here the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, who didn't subscribe to this "blame game" of some, and said: "Everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

    Let me be blunt here: If a married man has a "hard on" (literally or figuratively) for another woman, it is because of his own desire, it is because he allowed a passion for this other woman to be cultivated in his heart. The converse is true for the married woman. Jesus wouldn't give such a person a pass; neither should we.

    @djeggnog

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    Let me be blunt here: If a married man has a "hard on" (literally or figuratively) for another woman, it is because of his own desire, it is because he allowed a passion for this other woman to be cultivated in his heart. The converse is true for the married woman. Jesus wouldn't give such a person a pass; neither should we.

    @djeggnog

    Ya know I didn't bother reading the rest of what you posted in that last post, because I'm getting ready to catch the bus, but i had to respond to this before bouncing. I actually agree with you to some degree as I dig Stoic philosphy. What you quoted from James, and also Jesus' principles on looking at a woman the wrong way, can go a long way when it comes to controlling desire and actions. If a person can apply those principles in his or her life, it can save him/her a ton of frustration and problems in the long run.

    Where I disagree with you however, is about Jesus not giving one such a pass, and the thought that neither should we. I don't buy that for one second. The bible is clear on gross sinners, meaning those practicing sin, hence grieving the holy spirit, having no forgiveness left for them. At the same time, the very foundation of Christianity is acknowledging that we're sinners whether it be in thought, word, or action. The actions do in fact include infedility, amongst similar sins and worse. We're you lose me Eggnog, is by saying that "neither should we." At that point, I have to ask the question, who are you? Who am I? Who are the several old men comprising the GB along with the token brotha amongst them? Your post comes off to me as if you get off on being judge, jury, and you're dying, absolutely dying to be the executioner too. Imperfect men judging imperfect men.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    We're you lose me Eggnog, is by saying that "neither should we." At that point, I have to ask the question, who are you? Who am I? Who are the several old men comprising the GB along with the token brotha amongst them? Your post comes off to me as if you get off on being judge, jury, and you're dying, absolutely dying to be the executioner too. Imperfect men judging imperfect men.

    Misery, you hit it square on the nose. Thanks for expressing that thought.

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